EverDrive Forum

General => EverDrive N8 => Topic started by: MyCrunkyBaby on February 05, 2013, 09:04 PM

Title: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: MyCrunkyBaby on February 05, 2013, 09:04 PM
two quick questions, i searched first but hope i didn't miss anything:

1) i noticed on the Everdrive N8 page that a modification is required for expansion audio to work on a NES through a 60 to 72 pin adapter. what does this entail?

2) mapper #85 (Konami VRC7) is listed as not supported. are there plans to support it in the future with support for extra audio channels?

 really what i am trying to get at is- will i be able to play ラグランジュポイント on my everdrive N8 in the forseeable future or should i hold out to find an original cart?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: KRIKzz on February 05, 2013, 09:11 PM
1)I not sure what you want to know
2)I still working over mappers support. I definately can say that mappers support will be improved in near future, but i can't promise any thing about VRC7 sound, at this moment i even did not research it and don't know how complex this thing  was
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: MyCrunkyBaby on February 05, 2013, 09:16 PM
thanks for responding quickly!

1) i reference this: "Only Famicom can output expansion sound without modification. NES systems require modification to support this feature." what modification does NES system require for expansion audio to work?

2) no problem. there is only one game that ever used it and it is fairly complex. it has 6 channels FM synth (variation of yamaha OPL2) and PRG-RAM and CHR-RAM.

should i have bought a everdrive with USB port to help create VRC7 mapper?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: vmhomeboy on February 05, 2013, 09:21 PM
1) i reference this: "Only Famicom can output expansion sound without modification. NES systems require modification to support this feature." what modification does NES system require for expansion audio to work?

There's a good amount of information regarding the mod online.  It's really not that hard to find.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nes+audio+mod
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: MyCrunkyBaby on February 05, 2013, 09:27 PM
1) i reference this: "Only Famicom can output expansion sound without modification. NES systems require modification to support this feature." what modification does NES system require for expansion audio to work?

There's a good amount of information regarding the mod online.  It's really not that hard to find.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nes+audio+mod

sorry, for some reason i thought it was a modification to the everdrive itself
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: KRIKzz on February 05, 2013, 09:45 PM
thanks for responding quickly!

1) i reference this: "Only Famicom can output expansion sound without modification. NES systems require modification to support this feature." what modification does NES system require for expansion audio to work?

2) no problem. there is only one game that ever used it and it is fairly complex. it has 6 channels FM synth (variation of yamaha OPL2) and PRG-RAM and CHR-RAM.

should i have bought a everdrive with USB port to help create VRC7 mapper?

USB version is definitely yours choose if you have plans to develop something. It allow to load ROM and fpga configuration quickly from PC
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: MyCrunkyBaby on February 05, 2013, 11:06 PM
Is it possible to install USB port by myself afterwards if I order one without a USB port?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 06, 2013, 07:05 AM
two quick questions, i searched first but hope i didn't miss anything:

1) i noticed on the Everdrive N8 page that a modification is required for expansion audio to work on a NES through a 60 to 72 pin adapter. what does this entail?

2) mapper #85 (Konami VRC7) is listed as not supported. are there plans to support it in the future with support for extra audio channels?

 really what i am trying to get at is- will i be able to play ラグランジュポイント on my everdrive N8 in the forseeable future or should i hold out to find an original cart?

Do you speak japanese?  Lagrange point doesn't have a fanslation yet due to a hard time fitting the translated text into the limited romspace.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: KRIKzz on February 06, 2013, 07:48 AM
Is it possible to install USB port by myself afterwards if I order one without a USB port?
in this case you should soldr mini usb connector and FT245 IC
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 07, 2013, 01:15 AM
i was reading up on this, you can mod it to your nes board or if you are using the famicom convertor this might work as well.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3123270996_1fe0c3f33a.jpg)


nvm, forget this, i jsut read it bit more in depth and it still requires you to mod the insides of your nes, i geuss wiht this method you solder pin 3 with 40, so just doing 3 to 9 sounds like alot less trouble if that works
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on February 07, 2013, 01:48 AM
Why would you need a resistor AND a capacitor? All you need is a single wire connecting the pins (which are on opposite sides of the board). That's it as far as the adapter is concerned. Then on your NES you connect a couple of pins with 94k worth of resistance and you're perfectly good.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 07, 2013, 02:34 AM
ok i get it now i think, it jsut needed 3 to 9 connected for the powerpak cuz that was made for the us nes, but if doing hte famicom route, u would still have to connect the pins right, still don't explain why this picture shows it connected on teh adapter on the same side, maybe it's because it's 3rd party, i'll get it right before i attempt it though lol
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 07, 2013, 02:47 AM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 07, 2013, 03:01 AM
sorry for the confusion, and ya i found the parts about pin 3 and 9 on the inside of the OG nes. this is a picture of the adapter mod that was brought up. idk whats up with the first pic i posted. this looks really simple though :)
(http://rainwarrior.ca/projects/nes/nesjoint_audio_mod.jpg)

just ordered me one, couldn't resist :P
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on February 07, 2013, 04:12 AM
That'll work.

Quote
1) Solder a 47kOhm resistor between pins 3 and 9 on the expansion port (inside the actual NES).

It needs to be 94 or even 95k. With 47k the expansion audio is MUCH too loud. 47k may work fine with the wimpy PowerPak but not real Famicom carts or the Everdrive N8.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 07, 2013, 05:26 AM
i see, i'm going to hold off on the mod for a bit til i know the best option, probly do the wire on the converter, but it would be nice to know the exact resistor needed in advance lol, i'm not a super techy guy myself but i can get the job done :P

can't find 94 and 95ks, geuss i'm going to have to go with 91 or 100k ohm i can find them all over the place. unless you know a better place to purchace them
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 09, 2013, 04:10 AM
Why would you need a resistor AND a capacitor? All you need is a single wire connecting the pins (which are on opposite sides of the board). That's it as far as the adapter is concerned. Then on your NES you connect a couple of pins with 94k worth of resistance and you're perfectly good.

That's a really old mod performed by some random person.  Don't take it too seriously.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 09, 2013, 06:30 AM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on February 09, 2013, 07:54 AM
Two 47Kohm resistors are fine. Though I have no idea how that's too quiet when it sounds just like a real Famicom's mixing level. Like I said, it probably works fine for the Powerpak, but not REAL Famicom games which is what I am using to test.

LISTEN (http://www.joeredifer.com/akumajo.mp3). That's with two 47k resistors in series and a real Akumajou de Castlevania 3 cart (or whatever it's called, I just call it the Japanese version of Castlevania 3). I tried it with just one 47k resistor at first and it was very wrong. The NES audio was so quiet that you could barely hear the boss moan when you killed him. Just one 47k resistor is completely wrong if you want to use real carts and presumably the Famicom Everdrive.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 09, 2013, 09:11 AM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on February 09, 2013, 09:33 AM
Well if you can't back up why you think 94kohm is too quiet, please don't mention it. Doing so just does everyone who is trying to mod it properly a disservice. There really is only one correct level, and that's the level a real (original) Famicom mixes at. Please do not give any more misinformation as 47Kohm is just not enough.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 09, 2013, 05:46 PM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 09, 2013, 07:49 PM
jimmyemunoz, how beneficial do you find your pots on your NESs? I ask since I'm going to mod mine as soon as I get my N8 in and not sure if I want to go with a fixed value or not. I assume you just go by ear, but do you find that value seems to work well for all games?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 09, 2013, 11:57 PM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on February 10, 2013, 03:47 AM
Thanks Jimmy, you call me names and then complain in another thread that people on this forum have become childish? Welcome to the club because you are directly contributing to what you're complaining about. I am not trying to sound like a know-it-all so I will apologize if that's how I'm coming off. I fully admit that my knowledge of this issue was explored here in a thread I started. (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?22640-NES-with-extended-audio-from-Famicom-games) That and my ears tell me that the 94 or 95Kohm route sounds the closest to the real thing possibly outside of Drakon's method of wiring. I will assert that I am actually quite technical and have installed and tuned many movie theater sound systems in my time. My tuning skills have been complimented without prompt by directors David Llynch (when I showed the movie Straight Story for him) and Benjamin Bratt (when I showed LA Mission for him) as well as other, lesser known filmmakers. I may not know as much about the NES and it's mappers, but that doesn't mean I am an idiot in all other things. So please stop being childish with the name calling.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 10, 2013, 05:52 AM
Whoa, you both are cool guys, it's not a big deal.  I had someone give me hell for posting a schematic for a pc engine s-video mod, I just rolled my eyes and moved on with life.  Even on real famicoms the audio mixing circuits were changed between different pcb revisions.  There really is no "perfect" or ultimate version it's all preference.  I'm so glad I have a a switch on my system for two audio circuit options because I find most games sound perfect on one or the other (especially for stuff that uses audio upgrade chips).
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 10, 2013, 08:27 PM
I hope that you find my response helpful...  :)
Sure have. Thanks buddy. I think I'll just slap a pot in temporarily, find the impedance I want and then use a fixed value. I have a bunch kicking around anyways. Helps that Drakon mentions that even throughout Famicoms, the mixing circuits vary. I'll be using my ears on this one.
I could see myself putting the pot back in, but I already have too many holes in all my consoles, hah.

I had someone give me hell for posting a schematic for a pc engine s-video mod, I just rolled my eyes and moved on with life.
ROFL! Ummmm... who could this mysterious "someone" be?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: snstay on February 10, 2013, 09:07 PM
I can't quite make out your last post stonie, but I think you are asking about what to do with the 60 to 72 pin adapter.
With a USA NES side-loader you need to do two mods.
1) Solder a 47kOhm resistor between pins 3 and 9 on the expansion port (inside the actual NES).
2) And If you want audio with actual Famicom games, and the Famicom Everdrive/N8, you have to add a 26-30 AWG wire in the 60 to 72 pin converter, between pin 46 (of the 60-pin Famicom side) and pin 51 (on the 72-pin NES side).
If you have a top loader
1) You don't do the resistor between pin 3 and 9 mod. You need to add a 1.2-2.0 kOhm resistor between pin 51 and audio out.
I was wondering where you found the information about the top loader audio expansion mod.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 10, 2013, 11:37 PM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 10, 2013, 11:56 PM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: snstay on February 11, 2013, 02:00 AM
-snip-
I was wondering where you found the information about the top loader audio expansion mod.
I can't remember off the top of my head, but I can tell you it wasn't a perfectly laid-out tutorial. I had some stuff to figure out, through testing. I can tell you this, I have one PowerPak, one 60 to 72 pin adapter, a top loader NES, and a side-loader NES, and I have extended audio channels, on everything...without any adjustments.
Thats cool, i did the mod on my toaster nes. And now my friend wants me to do it to his top loader but i didnt think it was possible.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 11, 2013, 03:07 AM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 12, 2013, 05:04 AM

Does this help: (http://trinitytoday.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/batman-pow.jpg)

@ Drakon It was really hijacking the thread that wasn't considerate. I think your opinion of "someone giving you hell," is far from accurate. I mean seriously? Here is what was said:

blah blah blah

*rolls eyes and continues on with life*

Anyway mission accomplished.  You're no longer at each others throats over what resistor strength sounds best in a nes audio circuit with famicom audio chips.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 12, 2013, 07:55 AM
*rolls eyes and continues on with life*

Anyway mission accomplished.  You're no longer at each others throats over what resistor strength sounds best in a nes audio circuit with famicom audio chips.

Lol.
*Insert subtle, yet genuine, applause here*
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 12, 2013, 05:46 PM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 12, 2013, 07:04 PM
I'm not trying to control anything.  But I guess you feel threatened or something?  Maybe you enjoy fighting / bickering with people on forums?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 12, 2013, 07:58 PM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 12, 2013, 08:57 PM
Uhm no "honor was taken" from me.  The "world" doesn't treat me this way, on here it's really just you.  Why should I care about "digging deeper into a hole" with you?  Are you trying to scare me away from standing up for myself?  Like you're one to talk about popularity I don't see you exactly making a lot of friends here.  My point is you should stop bickering over such little things, but you really seem to enjoy doing it.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 12, 2013, 09:48 PM
@Grambo, are you trying to spur this argument? It appears like you might be cheerleading both sides, and that's a dangerous stance to take, be careful.

Perhaps I did a bit. Not my intention. I think these things get a bit carried away, as written text alone hardly conveys true intent. I'm really a rather cheery, friendly, but sarcastic sort who likes getting along with everyone and sometimes that's hard to present without emphasis or inflection in spoken word. You both have been helpful and friendly towards me in the past and I'd like to keep it that way. I'll try to use more tact in future postings, but I'll probably fuck it up here and there, so if you could be so kind, try and keep that in mind.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 12, 2013, 09:55 PM
I'm not bothered at all by grambo.  Jimmey seems to be the one who can't keep his cool too easily.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 12, 2013, 10:25 PM
woot flame war, seriously though, to get back on subject, so is the verdict for the mod going on two 47k resistors, should i solder them together first or should i solder them together on an empty part of the board to make it more secure. just trying to get some opinions here i've never dealth with soldering things and this seems like a small place to start :)
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 12, 2013, 10:51 PM
@stonie

I can't quite make out your last post stonie, but I think you are asking about what to do with the 60 to 72 pin adapter.
With a USA NES side-loader you need to do two mods.
1) Solder a 47kOhm resistor between pins 3 and 9 on the expansion port (inside the actual NES).
2) And If you want audio with actual Famicom games, and the Famicom Everdrive/N8, you have to add a 26-30 AWG wire in the 60 to 72 pin converter, between pin 46 (of the 60-pin Famicom side) and pin 51 (on the 72-pin NES side).
If you have a top loader
1) You don't do the resistor between pin 3 and 9 mod. You need to add a 1.2-2.0 kOhm resistor between pin 51 and audio out.

When I get back home (just away on business) I'm planning on putting a variable resistor in the mix, as per jimmyemunoz's suggestion.

The confusion I believe you're facing is Redifer's opinion on requiring 94k of resistance. 94k resistors are weird and aren't very popular, so it's more practical to achieve that by using 2 x 47kOhm resistors in series...

Series: (results in 94k)
|---47k---|---47k---|

Parallel: (results in 23.5k)
|---47k---|
|---47k---|

However, I'm leaning towards jimmy being right on this one (in which case, you want 47kOhms. Not 94kOhms).
My personal advice is to go ahead and use one 47k resistor... if by chance he's incorrect, the expansion audio will be too loud. In that case, just solder in another 47k resistor in series and see how that works out for you.

This is ALL assuming you're talking about a toaster NES.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 12, 2013, 10:53 PM
In case my ASCII art isn't good enough...

(http://hades.mech.northwestern.edu/images/5/51/Series_parallel_resistors.gif)
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 12, 2013, 11:01 PM
lol i get that much, i'm more refering to how i should do it not how it will work, i'd use a pot if i intended to use more than the everdrive for the sound exp but i just would rather get a good value and stick with it. it seems simpler too and i'm not expirenced in this so the resistor route seems alot simpler. i have to read read read read to make sure i don't mess this kinda thing up :P

gonna take the nes apart and clean the hell out the connector tonight though, i may new a new connector, been getting hardcore glitches in games after like 5 minutes play and got the green flickering screen a few times. should be fine i think it just need a good hard clean
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 12, 2013, 11:12 PM
lol i get that much, i'm more refering to how i should do it not how it will work, i'd use a pot if i intended to use more than the everdrive for the sound exp but i just would rather get a good value and stick with it.

To clarify, I think my plan is to just use a pot temporarily, find the resistance at the volume I prefer and then proceed to use a fixed resistor (my money's on it ending up at 47k, hah)

As for how...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z507PxcLjs FOR REFERENCE ONLY. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND GOOD CRAFTSMANSHIP, DON'T FOLLOW THIS TUTORIAL
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 12, 2013, 11:19 PM
i get that two but he is using one lol, and it's not a pot, i don't think you understand what i mean, i'm talking series connection, i have to solder both resistors together. i could do it to where they are together in a line or i could solder it to a unused spot on the board, making like a v shape, connecting the two resistors on this unused spot i think it would keep it together alittle more stable then having the two resistors just hovering over the pins they are connected to. you keep showing me stuff i have already read past :P. anyways i was confused as to what jim was saying about shorting out one of the legs on the pot, how will i know which leg to short, and all i can find on dead bug style is just bending the leg up like a dead bugs legs and i don't really thing that is exactly what you mean. im probly wrong on that though
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 13, 2013, 12:21 AM
You know what, I apologize. That video is really dumb, I didn't view it thoroughly.
First off, there's no good reason to epoxy a board to the bottom of your NES. I certainly would discourage anyone from hacking away at their NES chassis and using epoxy for this purpose.
By far the dumbest part of the video tutorial is the momentary switch... unless for some reason you feel like holding down a button on your console constantly so you can listen to expansion audio. If you're anything like me, you enjoy playing your NES with two hands.
*edit*
Now that I think about it, it's probably a normally closed momentary switch used only for comparison purposes... I guess I just see this as less dumb, but more pointless now.

I really don't know how to make it more clear than this:
With a USA NES side-loader you need to do two mods.
1) Solder a 47kOhm resistor between pins 3 and 9 on the expansion port (inside the actual NES).
2) And If you want audio with actual Famicom games, and the Famicom Everdrive/N8, you have to add a 26-30 AWG wire in the 60 to 72 pin converter, between pin 46 (of the 60-pin Famicom side) and pin 51 (on the 72-pin NES side).

But I will try:

STEP 1: Make stuff look like this: (with cleaner soldering. Solder joints look cold, but I could be wrong)
http://www.retrousb.com/images/audio_mod.jpg

STEP 2: Make stuff look like this: (with less exposed wire and melted insulation)
http://rainwarrior.ca/projects/nes/nesjoint_audio_mod.jpg FOR REFERENCE ONLY. PINS ARE INCORRECT.


Also, how potentiometers work:
http://www.brighthubengineering.com/commercial-electrical-applications/47625-potentiometers-explored-construction-and-working-principles/
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 13, 2013, 12:37 AM
And now I'm confused, as the pins in the step 2 pic aren't correct.

Due to the risk of handing out false information, I'm going to stop posting shit until I actually do this mod. Good day.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 13, 2013, 01:02 AM
going in circles O.o, it's cool though i probly need to get a responce from jimmy, because i'm refering to when he said this "Also, remember that the wiper arm is your output, and to short one of the outer legs to the wiper arm (with a wire). For those who don't know, a potentiometer typically has three terminals, so that's the reason for shorting one terminal. Solder it in dead-bug-style, and you could avoid a stripboard altogether."
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 13, 2013, 01:19 AM
Haha yeah always best to test something out before posting it.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 13, 2013, 02:04 AM
i was thinking it would be cool to use a potentiometer with wires and make a hole in the back with the rf output and power port to give it a dial to mess with the values, the button is dumb for just turning it off to show the difference but with a back dial you could do that too and still be able to make adjustments as needed easily
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 13, 2013, 02:12 AM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 13, 2013, 02:26 AM
ty jimmy that is exactly what i needed to hear, i havn't got the stuff i need yet because i wasn't sure how i wanted to do it, but i want to put a pot in :), i also want to make it a dial on the back of the nes, which should be easier then the guy that put a lame button for his resistors on that video that keeps floating around lol
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 13, 2013, 02:36 AM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Grambo on February 13, 2013, 05:49 AM
Sorry stonie, I never really fully understood that your true intention and goal was to have a pot installed until after your post that followed my last one.
I'm glad that jimmy's post has cleared up the matter.

If it helps you (and/or anyone else), I'll post some very detailed pics/audio clips/schematics in this thread when I'm all done, but unfortunately it'll be about a couple weeks until I'm back home.

That "Step 2" that you posted it strictly for a Famicom to NES adapter, using offical Famicom games, and it works. Unfortunately, it isn't the same procedure due to how the Everdrive Famicon/NES and PowerPak are made. In other words, that design you linked to, needed to be tweeked to take advantage of available pins on the cartridge connector of the flashcards I just mentioned. It might be best if you got rid of that link, or labeled it as not the correct mod for the Everdrive Famicom/NES mod, so as not to confuse anyone...but it's up to you.

Yep. I always try to correct any incorrect/misleading information I post ASAP. You'll notice the video link I referenced has a rather large caption as well now.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Drakon on February 13, 2013, 03:05 PM
@ Drakon It's a shame your Mom didn't know about birth control...you are beyond help, and I couldn't care less if you died tomorrow. Your opinions have no foundation...I don't have issues with anyone of this website, well maybe Redifer, but not on my side. I'm willing to overlook the situation with Redifer, and be peaceful. You, on the other hand, are just too mouthy and reckless. I'm glad I'm not you.

I suppose you consider yourself a shining example of maturity?  Redifer was right, you do the exact stuff that you complain about.  This paragraph shoes your true colours.  I think what it boils down to is you really can't stand someone else showing that there may be a better solution out there than your circuits / guides / whatever.  I don't consider the stuff I make to be some ultimate version and I don't get mad and freak out at someone when he / she suggests a different way of doing it.  I can really see you enjoy being "king of the tech advice".  If someone doesn't bow before you and dares to oppose you in any way without letting you win in the end then that person gets the quoted paragraph.

As for you trying to indimidate me it's not working, I don't care that you hate my guts and want me to die etc etc.  Redifer is a really cool guy from my experience, I don't want to see someone like you pushing him away from this forum.  You state all this stuff like I'm supposed to care what you think about me, please get off your high horse and come back down to earth with the rest of us.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 13, 2013, 05:39 PM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on February 21, 2013, 01:14 AM
I'm really sorry if this is a stupid question, but hopefully one of you can answer:

I just got my N8 and am using it with a Gyromite adapter.  I loaded Metroid for NES and it sounded exactly as it always has.  I then loaded the FDS Metroid and the sound was much better.

Is that the expansion audio you're talking about?  I don't think my NES is modded for that, however when I sent it out to have the RGB mod, I asked the guy to do the stereo mod as well...maybe he just added the resistor at the same time, enabling the Famicom audio???

Once again, sorry if it's a dumb question.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 21, 2013, 01:18 AM
if he added teh resister then it is modded for sound, but from the pics of your converter you have yet to solder the wire to the converter to run the sound to the proper pin outs, you need to mod the converter itself as well as put a resister in the nes
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 21, 2013, 04:28 AM
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Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 21, 2013, 04:52 AM
i jsut read the step 2 part, i thought the pin outs were correct on the converter part. i mean with the powerpak it's made for us consoles so it would have teh fds sound to the proper pinout to begin with but using the everdrive n8 in the converter i would think you'd set up the converter for sound like the regular famicom games because u still have to route it through that unused pin on the converter. i was about to do this tonight so if it is incorrect then i'd like to know.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on February 21, 2013, 08:48 AM
Metroid was entirely recomposed for the cartridge format, but the FDS version does primarily use the regular ol' soundchip. Therefore it might sound different though some things like effects and parts of the music might be missing here and there. This might explain it. Try Akumajou Densetsu (JP Castlevania 3). If it sounds like there is a ton of stuff missing then you'll know that your NES doesn't have the mods.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 21, 2013, 01:40 PM
removed
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on February 21, 2013, 06:28 PM
Try Akumajou Densetsu (JP Castlevania 3). If it sounds like there is a ton of stuff missing then you'll know that your NES doesn't have the mods.

That's a great idea, I'll try that tonight.  Is there's anything in particular I should listen for? 

I guess I'll do that and just go from there.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 21, 2013, 10:13 PM
look up the extra sound on youtube, doki doki panic is a great game to listen for though, when you kill spirts in it they have a weird scream that is completely different from mario 2 us
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: ed-209 on February 22, 2013, 12:39 AM
on a somewhat related note, is it possible to fix the expansion audio on an AV famicom? I don't own one myself (yet) but from what I've read the famicom audio is too soft and when playing a game such as akumajo densetsu the expansion audio overpowers the famicom audio.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 22, 2013, 12:42 AM
probly wiht the right about of resistance, i can't say too much about it cuz i'm not a very techy person but everything i read points at, higher resister value = softer expansion sound. problem is is where would you stick the thing lol
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on February 22, 2013, 12:44 AM
look up the extra sound on youtube, doki doki panic is a great game to listen for though, when you kill spirts in it they have a weird scream that is completely different from mario 2 us

I just played Doki Doki Panic and as expected, I wasn't getting the extra sounds.

I think I'll wait till the NES Everdrive comes out before I do anything else.  Once that's released, I'll give mine to a friend who has both a Famicom and a NES and buy the NES ED for me.

Then, I'll be back in this thread asking questions :)
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 22, 2013, 12:51 AM
well you can still do a couple things, like open your nes up and check pin 3 and 9 see if a resister is soldered there(there is alot of pics of it on the net to identify by) and if you have that then you have to get your converter modded, if you can get it to stick right and want to test without soldering i guess you could try taping hte wire in the right spot on the converter but i deffinatly wouldn't suggest it on the board i feel it's kinda risky on the converter itself personally but for all i know there could be no risk, i mean you originally put the everdrive in the wrong way and tried to boot it so i doubt the wire barly crossing another pin would cause too much damage. your best option would probly be to check the pins inside the nes but i KNOW you need the converter modded because the pin that uses exp6 isn.t used in the converter, it's just unlinked to anything on both sides
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 22, 2013, 09:02 PM
removed 
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: SkinnyV on February 22, 2013, 09:13 PM
I need to verify what's wrong, I just got my N8 and the extra sound channel sound really weird on Akumajou Densetsu. It used to sound great on my power pak before. The only difference is that I use the N8 with a famicom to nes adapter and I wired the pin for extra audio in it.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: JimmyMz on February 23, 2013, 02:05 AM
removed
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: KRIKzz on February 23, 2013, 02:13 AM
I need to verify what's wrong, I just got my N8 and the extra sound channel sound really weird on Akumajou Densetsu. It used to sound great on my power pak before. The only difference is that I use the N8 with a famicom to nes adapter and I wired the pin for extra audio in it.
You mean VRC6 castlevania or FDS one?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on February 23, 2013, 02:38 AM
VRC6 isn't accurate yet, it's a bit off in Akumajou Densetsu.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: SkinnyV on February 23, 2013, 05:36 AM
VRC6. You can hear the extra channel but it sound like it's missing instrument at some point. I'll mess with it later see if it's not the adapter modification (I doubt since it's only 1 wire though).
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: ed-209 on February 23, 2013, 06:58 AM
on a somewhat related note, is it possible to fix the expansion audio on an AV famicom? I don't own one myself (yet) but from what I've read the famicom audio is too soft and when playing a game such as akumajo densetsu the expansion audio overpowers the famicom audio.
The developer (krikZZ) has added a selectable option for two Famicom audio types, combating the volume level differences between the various Famicom systems/motherboard revisions. These two options are coded into the GUI, for easy selection.

oh wow, I didn't know that. that's pretty awesome. thanks for letting me know!
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: SkinnyV on February 23, 2013, 07:31 AM
One thing for sure is that it doesn't sound like the sound recording Krikzz previously posted on a different forum.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: KRIKzz on February 23, 2013, 08:04 AM
One thing for sure is that it doesn't sound like the sound recording Krikzz previously posted on a different forum.
What you mean?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: SkinnyV on February 23, 2013, 08:57 AM
I mean, you posted a WMA of a direct recording you made of the VRC6 sound (Akumajou Densetsu) on another forum. I think it was either Assemblers Game, Sega-16 or Atari Age, I am not certain anymore. The sound I get in Akumajou Densetsu doesn't sound like that recording at all. I'll try to record it later to show.

Update: Here you go, it actually doesn't sound as bad through the TV speaker (quickly recorded to mic input on old laptop with RCA to 3.5mm adapter). You'll notice at 1:18 that it is  doesn't sount quite right and seem to be missing instruments/note.

http://www.skinnyv.com/misc/EN8_VRC6.mp3 (http://www.skinnyv.com/misc/EN8_VRC6.mp3)
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: KRIKzz on February 23, 2013, 11:59 AM
But those record was made with EDN8, i can't say something about yours record, quality is too bad
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on February 23, 2013, 04:52 PM
Krikzz HERE is what Akumajou Densetsu sounds (http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/akumajou.zip) like (real Famicom cart and real Famicom, not AV, not Twin). Please use these files to compare. Notice the part at about :27 into the opening MP3. This will give you a good idea of how the mix levels should be.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: SkinnyV on February 23, 2013, 08:35 PM
But those record was made with EDN8, i can't say something about yours record, quality is too bad

I'm not sure what you mean, it was recorded using the Everdrive N8 straight from the NES sound output. Also you can clearly hear the missing part at 1:18 no matter how it was recorded. How should I record it so you can review the issue?

Edit: I just tried to move my NES closer to my main CPU to record on the Line-In but all I can is IO Error #63. Maybe the everdrive doesn't like my other PSU...
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Majestic_Lizard on March 07, 2013, 04:56 AM
That'll work.

Quote
1) Solder a 47kOhm resistor between pins 3 and 9 on the expansion port (inside the actual NES).

It needs to be 94 or even 95k. With 47k the expansion audio is MUCH too loud. 47k may work fine with the wimpy PowerPak but not real Famicom carts or the Everdrive N8.

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6020/soldernesf.jpg)

Just to make it as easy as possible, this is how I did it. I'm not arguing about the K ohms. 47 K ohms sounds good to me, but I'm mildly tone def.

The expansion audio for the FDS isn't working right yet, no matter what you do at this stage. So don't expect that sound to be correct just yet.

However, the expansion audio in Castlevania 3 (Japanese) while not entirely accurate, is decent.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on March 07, 2013, 10:36 PM
got me all this working last night. alot of it still sounds weird but i'm sure it will come around :)
i'll confirm the wire int he converter on that pic i posted that is four shots in one works here is a shot of the inside of my drive :)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/644162_10151322927977826_778062979_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: ZeroWing on May 03, 2013, 03:01 AM
After doing this to your front loader NES, does anybody else hear a popping noise after "Loading...." disappears? It kinda sounds like a double pop from an old record player. It happens after loading every game, whether it uses expansion audio or not. It bothered me too much so I put the resistor on a switch, and I only use it when playing a game with expansion audio. Just curious if this happened to anybody else or if it was just me.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on May 03, 2013, 05:04 AM
can't say i have, but i put an enio board on my front loader so that might be why
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Duo_r on August 20, 2013, 05:31 AM
Got this to work now with my modded NES


(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/741/v1qf.jpg) (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/v1qf.jpg/)


(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6172/qo9s.jpg) (http://img600.imageshack.us/i/qo9s.jpg/)

Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Duobix on September 07, 2013, 05:41 PM
Well, I am sure I'll be getting an EN8 in a month or so, but I am sure I'll get the NES version of the cart.
Does the NES EN8 have the audio output on one of the extension pins, or I'd have to mod it myself?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: The Iron Goat on September 07, 2013, 10:43 PM
Well, I am sure I'll be getting an EN8 in a month or so, but I am sure I'll get the NES version of the cart.
Does the NES EN8 have the audio output on one of the extension pins, or I'd have to mod it myself?
The NES EDN8 routes expansion audio to the correct pin by design, so no modding is required. You'll still need to mod your console, though.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Duobix on September 08, 2013, 10:49 AM
@The Iron Goat
that's nice, It's the same pin everyone uses here, or it's a different one?
Where can I find such information? THX in advance.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: wyatt8740 on September 08, 2013, 11:17 PM
That'll work.

Quote
1) Solder a 47kOhm resistor between pins 3 and 9 on the expansion port (inside the actual NES).

It needs to be 94 or even 95k. With 47k the expansion audio is MUCH too loud. 47k may work fine with the wimpy PowerPak but not real Famicom carts or the Everdrive N8.

If you have the 72-pin everdrive, though, 47k sounded better to me. Anyway,
I was able to swap them out quickly like this on my beat-up NES:
(http://wyatt8740.no-ip.org/picsandstuff/SoundMod-Scaled.png)

After doing this to your front loader NES, does anybody else hear a popping noise after "Loading...." disappears? It kinda sounds like a double pop from an old record player. It happens after loading every game, whether it uses expansion audio or not. It bothered me too much so I put the resistor on a switch, and I only use it when playing a game with expansion audio. Just curious if this happened to anybody else or if it was just me.
Yeah, happens to me too. Not too annoying to me, but yeah, I hear it.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on September 10, 2013, 03:28 AM
Well, with the Everdrive the 47k resistor might be better as the Everdrive external audio emulation is really, really quiet. Using REAL carts, however, 94k is just about right.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: TheBosZ on September 21, 2013, 08:14 AM
Hi everyone :)

I'm from Italy, it is glad to see finally a NES cart that is so good!

I'm about to buy a NES version of N8 for my PAL NES 1st model, but I have to ask
which kind of modification it is required for this model of NES.

Since I will not buy Famicom version and then use the FC/NES adapter, for extra sound channels it is only necessary
the resistor's modification?

Sorry if I repeat this question but I followed the discussion and it is not so clear to understand which kind of procedure for NES N8 and NES console
I have to follow!

Thanks for all your patience and support ;)
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: The Iron Goat on September 21, 2013, 04:40 PM
Hi everyone :)

I'm from Italy, it is glad to see finally a NES cart that is so good!

I'm about to buy a NES version of N8 for my PAL NES 1st model, but I have to ask
which kind of modification it is required for this model of NES.

Since I will not buy Famicom version and then use the FC/NES adapter, for extra sound channels it is only necessary
the resistor's modification?

Sorry if I repeat this question but I followed the discussion and it is not so clear to understand which kind of procedure for NES N8 and NES console
I have to follow!

Thanks for all your patience and support ;)
If you have the front-loading NES and the 72-pin (NES) version of the Everdrive N8, then you should only need to modify your console.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: tsu on September 22, 2013, 07:00 AM
Someone above mentioned the "really, really quiet" expansion audio emulation of the nintendo everdrive.  If that output level is to be changed in future, could it be a menu option, so that those with only one resistor mod won't have to add another to there nes?  I don't know what I'm talking about.  I just plan on buying an ENIO, and not have to solder anything.  But still, the ENIO only has one 47k resistor, doesn't it?  It says it has two, but I sort of read they are on separate pin lines.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Redifer on September 24, 2013, 05:28 AM
There already is a menu option for volume but the highest level is still too quiet. This may be adjusted sometime in the future, hopefully.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on September 24, 2013, 06:34 AM
I would love if I could just buy something to attach to the NES expansion and be able to use expansion sound without soldering!!
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on September 30, 2013, 07:44 AM
I ordered it and it will be here tomorrow. It was only $20 so I figured I'd try it out. I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it works as far as expansion audio on the 72pin Everdrive N8.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on September 30, 2013, 05:53 PM
I ordered it and it will be here tomorrow. It was only $20 so I figured I'd try it out. I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it works as far as expansion audio on the 72pin Everdrive N8.

I'm sorry, maybe I missed something...what did you order?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on September 30, 2013, 08:11 PM
I ordered it and it will be here tomorrow. It was only $20 so I figured I'd try it out. I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it works as far as expansion audio on the 72pin Everdrive N8.

I'm sorry, maybe I missed something...what did you order?

sorry. I ordered the ENIO for expansion sound on the NES.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on September 30, 2013, 08:37 PM
Can you post a link please?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on September 30, 2013, 09:18 PM
Can you post a link please?

You can get one at nintendorepairhut.com under the nintendo accessories section.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on September 30, 2013, 10:38 PM
That'll work.

Quote
1) Solder a 47kOhm resistor between pins 3 and 9 on the expansion port (inside the actual NES).

It needs to be 94 or even 95k. With 47k the expansion audio is MUCH too loud. 47k may work fine with the wimpy PowerPak but not real Famicom carts or the Everdrive N8.

If you have the 72-pin everdrive, though, 47k sounded better to me. Anyway,
I was able to swap them out quickly like this on my beat-up NES:
(http://wyatt8740.no-ip.org/picsandstuff/SoundMod-Scaled.png)

After doing this to your front loader NES, does anybody else hear a popping noise after "Loading...." disappears? It kinda sounds like a double pop from an old record player. It happens after loading every game, whether it uses expansion audio or not. It bothered me too much so I put the resistor on a switch, and I only use it when playing a game with expansion audio. Just curious if this happened to anybody else or if it was just me.
Yeah, happens to me too. Not too annoying to me, but yeah, I hear it.
ya but if you go this route you might as well just get an Enio exp board, i got that little center peice to hide the board well too
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on September 30, 2013, 10:39 PM
ya they are cool, the Enio board, it lets you use the 15 pin stuffs from the famicom too lol
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on October 01, 2013, 02:20 AM
heres a little review from me on the ENIO board.

You have to do a little mod by cutting the 6 tabs that are covering the expansion board

heres a pic of the mod..

(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u618/kmksoulja3/WP_20130930_003_zps5c3a8a17.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/kmksoulja3/media/WP_20130930_003_zps5c3a8a17.jpg.html)

after that all you do is pop in the ENIO board, set the everdrive sound mixing options to HIGH in the everdrive option menu and play.

(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u618/kmksoulja3/WP_20130930_001_zpsdde85eb2.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/kmksoulja3/media/WP_20130930_001_zpsdde85eb2.jpg.html)

It works perfect and sounds great. The only thing that sucks is that cover won't fit over this thing. So dont be placing your nintendo on the carpet and dont be touching the bottom of your NES while its plugged in. I guess.
Edit: I'm actually going to try to modify the center cover a little bit to see if I can get it to cover this thing. I'll report back.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on October 01, 2013, 03:17 AM
I thought you had to attach power and ground wires as well?  Is that only for the Famicom expansion port?  does that need to be done at all?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on October 01, 2013, 03:36 AM
I thought you had to attach power and ground wires as well?  Is that only for the Famicom expansion port?  does that need to be done at all?

I dont know who this was in reply to but this ENIO board i just put on the bottom of the NES requires cutting the tabs on the bottom to get to the EXP port and plugging the board in. There is no wires required for expansion sound.

BTW I got the EXP bay cover to fit on Barely which required cutting one of the side tabs in half

(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u618/kmksoulja3/WP_20130930_005_zpse0737f1c.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/kmksoulja3/media/WP_20130930_005_zpse0737f1c.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u618/kmksoulja3/WP_20130930_006_zps725ff7d0.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/kmksoulja3/media/WP_20130930_006_zps725ff7d0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on October 01, 2013, 03:45 AM
this $20 thing just made the everdrive like 20% better for me :D
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on October 01, 2013, 05:21 AM
Quote from: kmksoulja
I dont know who this was in reply to but this ENIO board i just put on the bottom of the NES requires cutting the tabs on the bottom to get to the EXP port and plugging the board in. There is no wires required for expansion sound.

I saw a page online where it looked like other wires were attached to the inside of the NES.  It's good that there's nothing else needed for audio...I hope it's the same for Famicom expansion.

BTW I got the EXP bay cover to fit on Barely which required cutting one of the side tabs in half

Thanks for posting those pics, I'll do the same!

this $20 thing just made the everdrive like 20% better for me :D

Having the resistors for audio is nice, but having a Famicom expansion port is amazing!  I never knew this thing existed!  Now I can use the Famicom 3D glasses, as well as any of the other Famicom accessories!
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on October 03, 2013, 06:09 AM
I thought you had to attach power and ground wires as well?  Is that only for the Famicom expansion port?  does that need to be done at all?

I dont know who this was in reply to but this ENIO board i just put on the bottom of the NES requires cutting the tabs on the bottom to get to the EXP port and plugging the board in. There is no wires required for expansion sound.

BTW I got the EXP bay cover to fit on Barely which required cutting one of the side tabs in half

(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u618/kmksoulja3/WP_20130930_005_zpse0737f1c.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/kmksoulja3/media/WP_20130930_005_zpse0737f1c.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u618/kmksoulja3/WP_20130930_006_zps725ff7d0.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/kmksoulja3/media/WP_20130930_006_zps725ff7d0.jpg.html)
i did hte exact same thing to protect my enio lol
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on October 08, 2013, 01:14 AM
I just received my ENIO board and exansion sound isn't working.  The board seems to be working properly, as the Famicom 3D adapter works fine.

I have the NES version of the N8, not the Famicom version.  Is there anything else I should have done to makethis work?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on October 08, 2013, 03:37 AM
I just received my ENIO board and exansion sound isn't working.  The board seems to be working properly, as the Famicom 3D adapter works fine.

I have the NES version of the N8, not the Famicom version.  Is there anything else I should have done to makethis work?

no its just plug and play. try out Doki Doki panic on the famicom disk system and see if it makes the sound effect when u hit an enemy with something. If you hear it then its working.

if not.. then try to remove it and plug it back in again.

I also have the NES version of the everdrive and it works for me.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on October 08, 2013, 10:31 PM
I just received my ENIO board and exansion sound isn't working.  The board seems to be working properly, as the Famicom 3D adapter works fine.

I have the NES version of the N8, not the Famicom version.  Is there anything else I should have done to makethis work?

it works fine on my famicom n8, but i had to hard mod the convertor. idk about hte nes n8 though i didn't think you needed to mod it like that
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on October 08, 2013, 10:48 PM
I figured it out:  My NES is modded for stereo audio.  The Famicom expansion audio isn't routed as part of that.  If I just use the regular mono audio out (on the side), then it works fine.

I'll someday wire that into the stereo mod...
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: dvd2vcd on October 08, 2013, 10:54 PM
I figured it out:  My NES is modded for stereo audio.  The Famicom expansion audio isn't routed as part of that.  If I just use the regular mono audio out (on the side), then it works fine.

I'll someday wire that into the stereo mod...
u got pal or ntsc nes?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robneal81 on October 08, 2013, 11:12 PM
u got pal or ntsc nes?

NTSC.  Game-tech did the stereo mod, plus the RGB PPU mod.  I can't recommend them enough...always really high quality work:  http://www.game-tech.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Nes/NES-101Mods (http://www.game-tech.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Nes/NES-101Mods)
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robutts on October 10, 2013, 11:38 AM


I dont know who this was in reply to but this ENIO board i just put on the bottom of the NES requires cutting the tabs on the bottom to get to the EXP port and plugging the board in. There is no wires required for expansion sound.

BTW I got the EXP bay cover to fit on Barely which required cutting one of the side tabs in half

(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u618/kmksoulja3/WP_20130930_005_zpse0737f1c.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/kmksoulja3/media/WP_20130930_005_zpse0737f1c.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u618/kmksoulja3/WP_20130930_006_zps725ff7d0.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/kmksoulja3/media/WP_20130930_006_zps725ff7d0.jpg.html)

How did you cut the plastic? I've tried various things, razor blades and such, to no avail. It seems like I'll need something more intense.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: kmksoulja on October 10, 2013, 07:30 PM
i just used a metal file it looks like a screwdriver u can find them at a hardware store, and i filed the hell out of it lol
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: robutts on October 11, 2013, 05:54 AM
Sounds about right, I'll look into a file. I might have one around the house.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on December 14, 2013, 04:00 AM
I just ordered an ENIO expansion board, and would like to hear some feedback from the folks on here who have put one in their NES toasters for use with the N8 NES Everdrive specifically. I can't find a clear answer on this thread/forum (or others for that matter) if this ENIO board adds the expansion audio from the Konami VRC6 (Akumajo Densestu) and Sunsoft 5B (Gimmik!) with %100 accuracy when used with the Everdrive N8, or if it's still a little "off".

As well, I've read that this ENIO baord adds the FDS channels with complete accuracy, is this the case when used in conjunction with the NES N8 Everdrive, or is accurate FDS audio channels still contingent on future improvements to audio emulation via OS updates? I'm unclear about this, as it sound like the posters above who put the ENIO board in have no complaints and are satisfied, but my understanding was that even with adding capacitors/adding this ENIO board the Famicom expansion audio/FDS audio was still not right? Is the ENIO board then really the final solution to adding Famicom expansions/FDS audio channels with %100 accuracy?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: nuu on December 14, 2013, 10:55 AM
All the Enio does is enabling expansion audio on your NES (as well as the Famicom expansion port). Without it you wouldn't hear the expansion audio at all. EDN8 is supposedly still not very accurate in emulating any of the expansion audio chips yet. This includes FDS, VRC6 and Sunsoft 5B. So EDN8 is at fault, not ENIO.

If you would try a real Famicom cartridge with expansion audio it would probably be 100% accurate.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: ApolloBoy on December 15, 2013, 03:06 AM
EDN8 is supposedly still not very accurate in emulating any of the expansion audio chips yet. This includes FDS, VRC6 and Sunsoft 5B.
I hope that Krikzz focuses on this for the next update. The FDS audio is especially bad since it's not only inaccurate but the pitch is way off.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on December 17, 2013, 03:27 AM
EDN8 is supposedly still not very accurate in emulating any of the expansion audio chips yet. This includes FDS, VRC6 and Sunsoft 5B.
I hope that Krikzz focuses on this for the next update. The FDS audio is especially bad since it's not only inaccurate but the pitch is way off.

This. I'm aware Krikzz is working on the GB/GBC Everdrive right now, but for me, the implementation of properly emulated Famicom Expansion sound/ accurate FDS audio is my top request for OS feature updates in the Everdrive line of products.

Second would be the implementation of FM audio for Master System games with the Mega Everdrive. I remember reading about a new emulated solution for the Sega Master System FM chip, so I think it may be quite easy in the future to add via an OS update. There's certainly enough games to warrant it (come on, Phantasy Star, Kenseiden, Wonder Boy in Monster Land, Double Dragon, Spellcaster- they all sound awesome with FM sound).
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: BlockABoots on December 31, 2013, 04:42 PM
I need to sort something out here. I am wanting to get the Famicom Expanded audio on my Front Loading US-NTSC NES Console which has Tim Worthington's RGBNES PCM mod fitted, i will be using a Everdrive N8 NES version cart on this system also.

Now this NESRGB mod not only adds RGB video to the NES system it also has a rather good rebuilt mono audio circuit (which is better than the original NES audio circuit). To be able to use this NESRGB audio you have to connect CPU pins 1 & 2 from the NES PCB itself to the 2 channel inputs on the NESRGB PCB labeled Channel A & B, as pictured below.....

(http://i.minus.com/iSnX4gKwRETZ4.jpg)

Because of this rebuilt audio circuit, it has been suggested that rather than using a 44k resistor to bridge pins 3&9 on the Expansion socket of the NES, instead run a wire (with a 22K resistor attached) from pin 9 of the Expansion socket to the 2 resistors on the NESRGB PCB as pictured below....

(http://i.minus.com/i4gEeCMAfeOaS.jpg)

But what was also used in the above mod, was the mod to the Famicom2NES adapter which bridges 2 pins....

(http://i.imgur.com/j1gWjcFl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/U7SqzHFl.jpg)

I dont have this Famicom2 NES adapter as im using the Everdrive N8 NES version (not famicom), i have tried the mod (pin 9 to 2 resistors on the NESRGB pcb) along with the Famicom version of Castlevaina 3 and im sure i was not getting any expanded audio!, so im not sure if this method of mod works with the combination of components i have (Front loading NES, NES Everdrive and NESRGB mod)?? Is there a Famicom game that uses exclusively expanded audio so i cant test for sure if this mod method is working??

Any ideas if i should try just bridging pins 3&9 with a resistor on the expansion port?, as i guess this could work as the NESRGB is taking the audio (from CPU pins 1&2) and then rebuilding the circuit inside the NESRGB and outputing the improved audio to the A/V socket (white wire 2 pictures above). Does the expanded Famicom audio get added before CPU pins 1&2 though or after as if its before i guess this mod wouldnt work either??
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: BlockABoots on January 18, 2014, 04:06 PM
Anyone help with the above post?
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on January 18, 2014, 10:23 PM
(http://ancientelectronics.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/nesm7.jpg)    well it might be easier connetion pins 9 and 3 for the expansion sound. i personally got an enio cuz my front loader is kinda on it's last leg but if i were to do it i would this way, most people use a 47k resistor but 22 might work better for you and the N8 does have a toggle for softer and louder sound from it. the region converter mod for it looked good though

BTW if you got the NES N8 you don't need to mod the cart, it would be set, only if you got the famicom version like me
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: alimadhi on January 22, 2014, 09:51 PM
i added 47k resistor but never got extra sound for my ED8 and my castlevania 3 too this my castlevania cartridge

(http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/imagegen.php?ImageID=1776&width=600)


and second thing i cant thank you Krikzz for make mapper 5 support in ED8, I believe you in the future you will make all mapper supports in ED8 Good luck.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: nuu on January 24, 2014, 06:55 PM
Castlevania 3 is for NES and thus doesn't have any extra audio. Akumajou Densetsu has however.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: Asaki on February 15, 2014, 10:08 PM
well it might be easier connetion pins 9 and 3 for the expansion sound. i personally got an enio cuz my front loader is kinda on it's last leg but if i were to do it i would this way, most people use a 47k resistor but 22 might work better for you...

Just a heads up, the resistor in that picture is 47 ohms, not 47K ohms. The color code should be yellow purple orange, not yellow purple black.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: pon on February 19, 2014, 11:48 PM
EDN8 is supposedly still not very accurate in emulating any of the expansion audio chips yet. This includes FDS, VRC6 and Sunsoft 5B.
I hope that Krikzz focuses on this for the next update. The FDS audio is especially bad since it's not only inaccurate but the pitch is way off.

Yeah the inaccuracy is not as big of a problem as the bad pitch :( it's a shame to have to mute FDS games.
Hopefully in a future OS update FDS audio will be more refined.
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: stonie on February 20, 2014, 12:07 AM
idk i use an enio with a 47k on it, it seems too soft to me most hte time
Title: Re: Expansion audio mod/VRC7 on NES?
Post by: wilykat on February 21, 2014, 04:03 AM
Well, with the Everdrive the 47k resistor might be better as the Everdrive external audio emulation is really, really quiet. Using REAL carts, however, 94k is just about right.

If anyone's going to use both Everdrive and real Famicom carts, a SPDT switch will work to handle both resistors.  Switch in one position for 47k for weak sound, and slide switch to other position with 94k for strong sound.