EverDrive Forum

General => EverDrive GBA => Topic started by: Galron on November 06, 2016, 04:10 PM

Title: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on November 06, 2016, 04:10 PM
So the answer to this question is probably 'no'.

But does Everdrive GBA work with the cross-linked GBA games DS?

The few games where if you stuck in a GBA cart the DS game would detect it and give you extra features in the DS game? One of the early DS Castlevania games had that feature and it would unlock some extra items in the game.

Then of course Boktai games and Lunar Knights would link up (but this was only to add 'solar support' features, so would be irrelevant to discussion of flashcarts that lack solar technology).

http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_DS_games_with_GBA_connectivity

Does the GBA Everdrive let you set up a way for the DS games to detect the GBA game through the everdrive?

If not, are there any other flash drive options that might allow for the cross-linking?



On a related note if you have Everdrive GB, and load up Zelda Oracle games on a GBA will the game detect the GBA to load up the Advance Shops?
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Shadow666 on November 07, 2016, 12:56 AM
So the answer to this question is probably 'no'.

But does Everdrive GBA work with the cross-linked GBA games DS?

The few games where if you stuck in a GBA cart the DS game would detect it and give you extra features in the DS game? One of the early DS Castlevania games had that feature and it would unlock some extra items in the game.

Then of course Boktai games and Lunar Knights would link up.

Does the GBA Everdrive let you set up a way for the DS games to detect the GBA game through the everdrive?

If not, are there any other flash drive options that might allow for the cross-linking?



On a related note if you have Everdrive GB, and load up Zelda Oracle games on a GBA will the game detect the GBA to load up the Advance Shops?

"NO" and there is no flashcart that will work u will need the real things to do this
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on November 07, 2016, 04:09 PM
So not even the Ez 3in1 expansion pack, that has the option load a single game into "NOR" to mimic a single game cartridge?

Has anyone tested that out?

Or is do 'linked' games have something special with their cartridges that DS game detects (chips? Contact layouts?)? How does this "connectivity" work? I am asking this out of interest in the technology, for anyone who might know?.

Also, how did the connectivity work for the Oracle games and GBA?
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Localhorst86 on November 07, 2016, 08:39 PM
So not even the Ez 3in1 expansion pack, that has the option load a single game into "NOR" to mimic a single game cartridge?

Has anyone tested that out?

no, but i can try. I have a an ezflash 3in1, ezflash IV, supercard mini and an F2A at my disposal.

i'd assume at least the F2A to be able to do this, all the other ones probably have issues.

how can i check the connectivity works, what do i have to look out for?

EDIT:

I just tried with boktai. I whipped out lunar nights and my original bokati cartridge and checked what happend. in the options menu of lunar nights there was a new option called "solar sensor" so i knew what to look out for. I then flashed the rom (properly patched for each flashcart, just to be sure) to the NOR flash of the EZflash IV, Ezflash 3in1 and Flash2Advance. The supercard does not have a NOR so i left it at that. Here are the results (in the order i tried it):

1. Ezflash IV: option does not show up
2. Ezflash 3in1: option DOES show up
3. Supercard Mini: option does not show up
4. Flash2Advance 128M: option DOES show up

so in conclusion, the option would not show up on the two cards that have an SD Slot and a built in menu system to load different games. Whereas it would show up with both cartridges that are "storage only". So i guess the NDS identifies the GBA game via its header, the 3in1 and F2A will identify as the games flashed, whereas the EZIV and SC would boot into their menu first and therefore have a different header at boot. By this conclusion the EDGBA would not work either as the header would be different, but maybe krikzz would be able to have the header of the EDGBA to be set to whatever we want.

note that I was not able to test how the F2A would behave with a multi-ROM menu because my card is only a 128M model and therefore can only hold one of the Boktai games.

I was also not able to test how the pokemon games would behave so i do not know if you can tranfer pokemon from the F2A or 3in1 to the DS generations. This might fail since both cards use SRAM instead of FLASH or Eeprom or whatever the Pokemon games were using so i am not sure if the DS games would be able to see the savegame on the SRAM.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on November 07, 2016, 09:57 PM
Local, excellent research and review! Thank you for the help!

This may be a reason for me to pick up a secondary card (Ezflash 3in1, or FlashAdvance 128) but assume its only going to be useful for something like Castlevania, or the 'bonus unlock' type uses (Rub Rabbits, etc) for costumes, and extra images, maybe for Advance Wars unlocks in the DS game as well.  I'd probably be better off with the EzFlash 3in1 since it also doubles as a rumble pack for DS games that handle rumble (although I doubt it would work with Drill Dozer or Warioware Twisted or any other GBA games that have rumble features?). I think there is some software to get the EzFlash 3in1 to work with the DsTwo+ flashcard.

It would be interesting to see further research, and how it reacts with the Pokémon link-ups as you mentioned. However, I'm not much into Pokémon, so probably no big deal to me.

Edit:
And Shadow666 has proven he knows absolutely nothing on this subject....
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Localhorst86 on November 07, 2016, 11:09 PM
Local, excellent research and review! Thank you for the help!

This may be a reason for me to pick up a secondary card (Ezflash 3in1, or FlashAdvance 128) but assume its only going to be useful for something like Castlevania, or the 'bonus unlock' type uses (Rub Rabbits, etc) for costumes, and extra images, maybe for Advance Wars unlocks in the DS game as well.  I'd probably be better off with the EzFlash 3in1 since it also doubles as a rumble pack for DS games that handle rumble (although I doubt it would work with Drill Dozer or Warioware Twisted or any other GBA games that have rumble features?). I think there is some software to get the EzFlash 3in1 to work with the DsTwo+ flashcard.

It would be interesting to see further research, and how it reacts with the Pokémon link-ups as you mentioned. However, I'm not much into Pokémon, so probably no big deal to me.

A FlashAdvance or Flash2Advance is rather hard to find these days and the linker software for PC will only work on XP (allthough I managed to get it working in a virtual XP machine on my Windows 10 rig). The 3in1 seems to be easier to find, plus it sits flush in a DSlite.

I did further research on the pokemon games and just as I expected the generation IV games is looking for the savegame information in the FLASH. Since none of my GBA Cards has flash storage, Pokemon Diamond refuses to see the pokemon savegame (out of the box). There is, however, a tool that allows you to patch the DS Pokemon games to look in the SRAM section of the GBA cart, which I got to work with my 3in1 and F2A as the patches are specific to the slot-2 flashcard used. I was not able to get it to work properly with the EZFlash IV even though the pokepatcher tool said it would be compatible, I got the option to show up but it would tell me the save data was corrupted.

Depending on how the EDGBA works with its savegame storage the DS games *might* be able to work ootb or *might* be patchable with pokepatcher

So the final results seem to be this:

if a DS Game is simply checking for the game in the slot it most likely simply checks the Header of the GBA Games. Flashcards that do not use a menu will work for this, flashcards with a menu will not work. Maybe patching the DS Roms to check for the EDGBA Header instead might be feasible.

if a DS Game accesses the savedata of the GBA Game it will check in the storage option that the GBA Game would originally use. If this is not available on the card (i.e. flashcard and presumably bootleg games) it won't work either. Patching the DS Games to look in SRAM instead is possible, might be incompatible with the EDGBA, though.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on November 07, 2016, 11:52 PM
Thanks Local.

Another question, concerning the 3in1...

How is the rumble on it compared to official rumble pack? I have the original "phat" GBA cart-style Rumble Pak which works really well, although its a bit loud at times.

Then I have an off brand DSlite version, but it's extremely weak, you can barely feel it (so its pretty much a waste).

It looks a bit like this one:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDgwMA==/z/AmgAAOSwLVZVitAH/$_1.JPG

I understand the official Nintendo short DS lite version never made it western world (other than imports, so its pretty rare)? So I don't know where that compares to the off brand version of the DSlite rumble.

As for 3in1 I think there is both phat and a dslite version. You have the DSlite version? In your opinion how is the rumble?
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Localhorst86 on November 08, 2016, 08:15 AM
i cant really say anything about the rumble because i cant get to to work on my R4i SDHC at all. You need to patch the DS roms to be able to use the 3in1 as rumble and for some reason that never worked for me.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on November 08, 2016, 02:19 PM
Ahh Local I was reading you need to use something called a GBA Exploder?

I wonder what the steps would be for my DSTWO Plus.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Localhorst86 on November 08, 2016, 06:51 PM
gba exploader is a nds software that allows you to flash a gba game onto the NOR of the 3in1. simply place your gba roms on the micro sd of the dstwo, run exploader.nds and select which rom to flash.

the 3in1 apparently was initially designed to go along with the EZflash V, you wouldn't need a special tool or patches to use the GBA function and rumble support. but that card is hard to find. i found one two years ago, ordered it and it arrived in a non working state. when i reclaimed at the shop they said "sorry, were sold out" and sent me an Ezflash IV for the GBA instead.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on November 22, 2016, 07:03 PM
I've read many of the ez flash  cards can arrive DOA but apparently it's not hard to change the battery. I've found plenty of sites that have the lite model.

Anpparently another flash card that has NOR was m3 perfect but that is near impossible to find.

Adding NOR might be a handy feature to have in X7 model if Krikzz ever starts thinking of new feature to add. I could only dream for support for rumble, solar feature and game link abilities for DS including Pokémon games..
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: brianvgplayer on November 22, 2016, 09:42 PM
Everdrive GB uses flash memory. Shantae boots in GBA mode and games with SGB features work on SGB. I heard GBA features for the Zelda Oracle games work too.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on November 23, 2016, 02:23 PM
Thank! Good to know.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on May 22, 2019, 12:58 AM
Local, excellent research and review! Thank you for the help!

This may be a reason for me to pick up a secondary card (Ezflash 3in1, or FlashAdvance 128) but assume its only going to be useful for something like Castlevania, or the 'bonus unlock' type uses (Rub Rabbits, etc) for costumes, and extra images, maybe for Advance Wars unlocks in the DS game as well.  I'd probably be better off with the EzFlash 3in1 since it also doubles as a rumble pack for DS games that handle rumble (although I doubt it would work with Drill Dozer or Warioware Twisted or any other GBA games that have rumble features?). I think there is some software to get the EzFlash 3in1 to work with the DsTwo+ flashcard.

It would be interesting to see further research, and how it reacts with the Pokémon link-ups as you mentioned. However, I'm not much into Pokémon, so probably no big deal to me.

A FlashAdvance or Flash2Advance is rather hard to find these days and the linker software for PC will only work on XP (allthough I managed to get it working in a virtual XP machine on my Windows 10 rig). The 3in1 seems to be easier to find, plus it sits flush in a DSlite.

I did further research on the pokemon games and just as I expected the generation IV games is looking for the savegame information in the FLASH. Since none of my GBA Cards has flash storage, Pokemon Diamond refuses to see the pokemon savegame (out of the box). There is, however, a tool that allows you to patch the DS Pokemon games to look in the SRAM section of the GBA cart, which I got to work with my 3in1 and F2A as the patches are specific to the slot-2 flashcard used. I was not able to get it to work properly with the EZFlash IV even though the pokepatcher tool said it would be compatible, I got the option to show up but it would tell me the save data was corrupted.

Depending on how the EDGBA works with its savegame storage the DS games *might* be able to work ootb or *might* be patchable with pokepatcher

So the final results seem to be this:

if a DS Game is simply checking for the game in the slot it most likely simply checks the Header of the GBA Games. Flashcards that do not use a menu will work for this, flashcards with a menu will not work. Maybe patching the DS Roms to check for the EDGBA Header instead might be feasible.

if a DS Game accesses the savedata of the GBA Game it will check in the storage option that the GBA Game would originally use. If this is not available on the card (i.e. flashcard and presumably bootleg games) it won't work either. Patching the DS Games to look in SRAM instead is possible, might be incompatible with the EDGBA, though.

Well, after several years I think I finally found a Ezflash 3-in-1 on ebay. The DS Lite version. Reasonable price, I ordered it and hopes it functions with most of the DS/GBA link games. At least the ones that uses 'headers' and NOR.


BTW is this the Flash2Advance?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flash-Card-128-M-for-GameBoy-Advance-ONLY-Advance-Wars-2-plus/292467821743?hash=item441870ccaf:g:hOEAAOSwX6RcK~21:sc:USPSFirstClass!73045!US!-1
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Marteicos on May 22, 2019, 02:01 AM
Not a single Mention of the M3 Perfect. It could do some things but for Pokemon you need the real card and cart.

For games that only need to detect the gba game to unlock things on DS game, the M3 could boot in nds mode from slot 2, load the gba game into ram then launch the DS game from sd card dma.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on May 22, 2019, 02:13 AM
Not a single Mention of the M3 Perfect. It could do some things but for Pokemon you need the real card and cart.

For games that only need to detect the gba game to unlock things on DS game, the M3 could boot in nds mode from slot 2, load the gba game into ram then launch the DS game from sd card dma.


I mentioned M3 Perfect just a few posts above yours.. a few years ago!


Quote
Posted by: Galron
« on: November 22, 2016, 07:03 PM »
Insert Quote

I've read many of the ez flash  cards can arrive DOA but apparently it's not hard to change the battery. I've found plenty of sites that have the lite model.

Anpparently another flash card that has NOR was m3 perfect but that is near impossible to find.

Adding NOR might be a handy feature to have in X7 model if Krikzz ever starts thinking of new feature to add. I could only dream for support for rumble, solar feature and game link abilities for DS including Pokémon games..
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Marteicos on May 22, 2019, 08:02 AM
Sorry, I've missed your post but the M3 Perfect doenst have NOR.

M3 Perfect uses ram to load the games.

Yeah, it was near impossible to obtain this device, enjoyed a lot of Pokemon Emerald time events with it.

Trying to connect it with the game cube erases the save file though, even with this a real cart is needed.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Localhorst86 on May 25, 2019, 12:55 AM
is this the Flash2Advance?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flash-Card-128-M-for-GameBoy-Advance-ONLY-Advance-Wars-2-plus/292467821743?hash=item441870ccaf:g:hOEAAOSwX6RcK~21:sc:USPSFirstClass!73045!US!-1

Looks like a Flash Advance to me, the predecessor to the Flash 2 Advance.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on May 25, 2019, 02:52 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-in-1-Expansion-Pack-for-EZ-Flash-V-Cartridge-GBA-DS-New-in-Box/293101191618?hash=item443e3141c2:g:5y4AAOSwxjRc2vPD&frcectupt=true

Seems 3 in 1 has popped back onto ebay if anyone is interested.

Again don't expect the battery to work, you'll have to replace it. Ezflash doesn't have easy to replace batteries, you have desolder a clip I think, and then add a new battery in, and tape/solder it back in place. But it is one of the only options to have NOR out there that works for most of the linking games.

I ordered one of these myself.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on May 28, 2019, 08:03 PM
Quote
M3 Perfect uses ram to load the games.

Isn't ram volatile? As in is erased after the system is shut down? Assuming the battery isn't keeping it 'alive'.


BTW, the daughter card 3in1 is working well with my Dstwo Plus, and adding many of the extra features I had hoped for (ability to link most of the linkable games) together for the free unlocks.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on May 28, 2019, 08:25 PM
https://gbatemp.net/threads/pokepatch-3-in1-platinum.141663/

This is interesting.. Apparently if you are running EZV itself, it uses its own pokepatch kernels, which patches the GBA roms to allow the 'transfer'. I don't know if they ever added support for Platinum though. Not that I'm likely to really use the Ezflash V unless I find a 2gb micro-sd any time soon (it doesn't like sd cards over 2 gb apparently)…


M3 Real?
https://www.shop01media.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1396
Hmm...


Quote
NDS-GBA Linkage works fine


Sorry, I've missed your post but the M3 Perfect doenst have NOR.

M3 Perfect uses ram to load the games.

Yeah, it was near impossible to obtain this device, enjoyed a lot of Pokemon Emerald time events with it.

Trying to connect it with the game cube erases the save file though, even with this a real cart is needed.


Out of needing more explanation what is difference between NOR and Ram? In the official usage?

I've seen quite a few articles call "NOR" Ram, or "NOR RAM"... What little I can find "NAND" which is another form of non-volatile memory is EEPROM, or erasable read only memory...

Where as NOR is said to function much like "RAM" (Random Access Memory)… Thus might be volatile assuming the 'battery' isn't there to keep the data in the NOR.

But both NAND and NOR are used as forms of Flash memory...

I need more clarification and explanation from anyone who might know, and explain the differences between NOR and M3's use of Ram/expansion card?

The 3 in 1 also has expansion "Ram" for the sake of use in Nintendo Opera Browser, or for other programs. But I don't know how that interacts with the NOR, etc.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: nuu on June 02, 2019, 01:30 AM
I have no idea what M3 Perfect is using, but NAND memory and NOR memory are two types of flash memories, and thus non-volatile (but very slow to write to). NAND is short for NOT-AND logic gates and NOR is NOT-OR logic gates which they are built by. You can build any logic using only NAND or only NOR gates because the right combination of NAND or NOR can make any type of logic gate (using the same type of gate for the whole circuit can make it cheaper).

RAM is volatile unless you connect a battery to it. But for uploading games you don't need volatile memory unless you need to power cycle (M3 Perfect does not support any kind of direct boot as far as I remember). The M3 Perfect kept the save in battery-backed RAM though, and copied it to SD card the next time you started the OS. My battery ran out and I lost my save. The stock batteries are of poor quality rechargeable type, and I guess the RTC is what kills them.

EPROM is Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory, game developers used cartridges with EPROMs to test games when developing for older systems. To erase them you need to expose the little window on the chip to UV-light. You cook them in a UV-eraser for several minutes, so each erase and write cycle takes time.

EEPROM is Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory, it can be erased by the program in-circuit so the erase and write cycle is much faster. Playstation memory cards, N64 games and GBA games among other things often uses EEPROM for the save and thus don't need a battery.


My friends got M3 Real and I remember I was jealous because Download Play worked fine on it but not on my M3 Perfect. I have no idea if NDS-GBA Linkage means it can link to rom images and save files though. Also the M3 team stopped long before DSTWO stopped so I think compatibility with games may be worse. I think they stopped releasing updates while new DS games was still being released.
The RAM cartridge is needed to play GBA games and for the Opera browser since both use a slot-2 cartridge that needs to be executed from. I don't think that means it necessarily has NOR though. Isn't the EZ daughter card doing the same thing except without GBA support? RAM and rumble are separate cartridges on the M3 Real though.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Marteicos on June 02, 2019, 04:22 AM
Iirc M3 Perfect uses Psram, it's fast enough to not lag in any game. It supports sdhc but only for multimedia. For game boy Advance games only non sdhc card formatted on Windows xp (a VM works) works.

The ez flash 3 in 1 is non volatile, for games that only need to be detected this is the best solution.

For Pokemon games only the original carts will work, the slot one game (Pokemon diamond/pearl/platinum/hg/ss) checks the save on it's flash directly, the game on ez flash is patched to use sram.


My m3 perfect is a mini sd model that have the same size of a stock game cart, Even with a dead battery I could backup the save after a session, although I power cycle fast to allow it to backup.

I installed a new battery some time ago and the battery is not rechargeable, the rtc use very little power.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on June 02, 2019, 06:53 AM
Quote
Isn't the EZ daughter card doing the same thing except without GBA support?

IF there are different daughter cards made by EZ? I don't know...
The 3-in-1 has ram, so it can handle Opera Browser (and also be used for a few indie/homebrew/ports stuff too). It can also hold a single GBA games in NOR, or load them directly using Psram. Larger games have to be loaded into NOR. It also has rumble built in.


http://www.ezflash.cn/product/ez-flash-3-in-1/


It sounds like its pretty good thing I found one though, since it works well with the SD2SNES on a DS Lite.

Still somewhat curious about how the M3 Real's features and whatever that GBA-DS Link, but I'm guessing it functions in a similar fashion to the way M3 Perfect was able to do it?

It's really too bad though that Krikkz didn't figure out a way to get GBA-DS linking to work on his flashcart though...
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Galron on June 02, 2019, 07:24 AM
https://gbatemp.net/threads/is-it-possible-to-trade-pokemon-from-ezflash-iv-to-legit-cartridge-gba.436509/

Interesting discussion here, not so much for the incorrect information about pokemon transfers people inside the thread offered... But general hint that maybe EZ Flash IV's Nor might also be able to hold a game, and be used for 'GBA-DS game linking' as well....


The guy in this video also talks abou the NOR, and that it can hold a game even when the SD card is removed. He doesn't talk about game connectivity with a DS, but maybe that's promising? For anyone looking for other possibly cheaper alternatives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw6BXJx_3Qk


I've heard Reform, and Omega also have NOR as well, but from what I understand  they don't work with game linking at all. In particular because the system loads up a menu... But then again no one tested it with the SD card removed... Maybe if it doesn't have an SD card to load firmware/menu from, maybe it'll default to the NOR instead?

Anyone want to test that?


As a side note, a few pages I read ove rmentioned that linking from rom of a GBA Pokemon game, to a legit copy of a Pokemon cartridge (assuming you have two GBA to link the two copies to), you can transfer pokemon from rom version over to the legit copy. At which point you would be able to use your legit copy to transfer Pokemon to the DS or Gamecube linked games... If this is the case you would really only need to own the last generation of the GBA games to 'hold' your pokemon for you so you can transfer them over to gamecube, or DS. OR at least. A at least one copy of whatever game is compatible with each generation.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: Marteicos on June 03, 2019, 06:56 PM
Trades always worked fine between flashcart and original cart, the pokemon gen IV from slot 2 trabsfer fails because the game in slot 1 access directly the save chip on slot 2, expecting to find a flash or eprom.
Title: Re: GBA and DS linked games
Post by: nuu on June 06, 2019, 11:15 PM
Yes linking two systems where both games are running is no problem. As long as the flashcart runs the game correctly there is nothing that can go wrong. Only problem might be the Super Game Boy 2 linking because it seems to work a bit different.

My m3 perfect is a mini sd model that have the same size of a stock game cart, Even with a dead battery I could backup the save after a session, although I power cycle fast to allow it to backup.

I installed a new battery some time ago and the battery is not rechargeable, the rtc use very little power.
Mine is a micro SD model with the DS Lite dust cover sized case. It also came with several colored cases and one white GBA case you could swap with so that it would work in a GBA and DS fat. It did use an auto-recharging battery, but it was low quality and it didn't work as it should and ran dry.