EverDrive Forum

General => FXPAK (SD2SNES) => Topic started by: EBJ7 on May 21, 2018, 05:18 PM

Title: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES? [NO!]
Post by: EBJ7 on May 21, 2018, 05:18 PM
Looking into purchasing this flash cart. The support is amazing in terms of titles. I noticed some of my favorite Kirby games don’t work due to SA-1 chips. Now my question is, is it physically impossible for the FPGA on the SD2SNES due to power/infrastructure limitations, or is it simply a matter of work needing to be done. I ask because I notice the cart just got BETA support for the FX chip which is amazing since it’s been years since the cart came out.

I did some research on how the SA-1 chips talk to be SNES and it seems more complicated than other chips. It just was unclear to me if this chip is physically incapable of being emulated, or just a gigantic amount of work that no sane person would ever go through for the payoff. Would be nice to know that there is HOPE, lol.

Thanks for any clarification.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Sarge on May 21, 2018, 09:21 PM
There has been a lot of discussion of this over the years.  The answer is...  we don't actually know.  If it does work, it's going to be tight, and likely not a full implementation of the chipset.  There were a lot of functions that no commercial games used in the SA1 according to byuu.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong on how I read the situation.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on May 21, 2018, 09:44 PM
There has been a lot of discussion of this over the years.  The answer is...  we don't actually know.  If it does work, it's going to be tight, and likely not a full implementation of the chipset.  There were a lot of functions that no commercial games used in the SA1 according to byuu.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong on how I read the situation.

Pretty good summary, for the layman.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: roadkill2 on May 21, 2018, 09:50 PM
I'm hoping that SA-1 is supported on the SD2SNES too, I just got one as well and am really impressed with all the titles that are supported compared to when I had a Super EverDrive, which I had for 5 years. My purchase of the SD2SNES was pretty good timing, as Super FX support came out right before I bought it (and I didn't know until after I bought it). This made my purchase all the much more worthwhile for me.

Anyways, I can patiently wait for SA-1 support tbh, because there's only 3 games that I'd like to play if it is supported some day; Kirby's Dreamland 3, Kirby Super Star, and Super Mario RPG. I can always just purchase those games if I want to play them badly enough, but believe it or not I'm actually really not much of a fan of any of those 3 games. Also, I'm not much of a fan of Dragon Ball Z Hyper Dimension either. So yeah, I can most certainly wait patiently, but I'm also hoping that it's not impossible.

Ok I rambled enough.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Missingno255 on May 22, 2018, 01:47 AM
EDIT: SA-1 is now supported
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: leonquest on May 22, 2018, 08:40 AM
Looking into purchasing this flash cart. The support is amazing in terms of titles. I noticed some of my favorite Kirby games don’t work due to SA-1 chips. Now my question is, is it physically impossible for the FPGA on the SD2SNES due to power/infrastructure limitations, or is it simply a matter of work needing to be done. I ask because I notice the cart just got BETA support for the FX chip which is amazing since it’s been years since the cart came out.

I did some research on how the SA-1 chips talk to be SNES and it seems more complicated than other chips. It just was unclear to me if this chip is physically incapable of being emulated, or just a gigantic amount of work that no sane person would ever go through for the payoff. Would be nice to know that there is HOPE, lol.

Thanks for any clarification.

Just go buy them if you have the money, you won't break the bank...  At least for today's standards. If you sit around and wait for someone to add SA-1 support to the SD2Snes then you may never see them, and they might get too expensive by then, as the retro gaming scene gets more and more popular. It's still under investigation whether it's possible to add support foe it on the sd2snes, so if you need to play them in the near future then go get em.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: EBJ7 on May 22, 2018, 03:05 PM
Looking into purchasing this flash cart. The support is amazing in terms of titles. I noticed some of my favorite Kirby games don’t work due to SA-1 chips. Now my question is, is it physically impossible for the FPGA on the SD2SNES due to power/infrastructure limitations, or is it simply a matter of work needing to be done. I ask because I notice the cart just got BETA support for the FX chip which is amazing since it’s been years since the cart came out.

I did some research on how the SA-1 chips talk to be SNES and it seems more complicated than other chips. It just was unclear to me if this chip is physically incapable of being emulated, or just a gigantic amount of work that no sane person would ever go through for the payoff. Would be nice to know that there is HOPE, lol.

Thanks for any clarification.

Just go buy them if you have the money, you won't break the bank...  At least for today's standards. If you sit around and wait for someone to add SA-1 support to the SD2Snes then you may never see them, and they might get too expensive by then, as the retro gaming scene gets more and more popular. It's still under investigation whether it's possible to add support foe it on the sd2snes, so if you need to play them in the near future then go get em.

Yeah I’m thinking about it, I was just curious if the hardware in the SD2NeS simply is incapable of emulating the chip due to maybe the layout of SA-1 carts being structurally different or something. It seems the consensus is there is simply not enough room, which is different from, it is impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES even if there was more space and a thousand years to work on it. I’m getting the impression that the SA-1 is emulatable on the FPGA if room and work weren’t serious barrriers.

I’m not waiting for anything, it’s already a great purchase!
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: OneBagTravel on May 22, 2018, 03:15 PM
Pretty sure the understanding is that no one knows yet. I've heard the argument that there's hardware limitations in onboard RAM size and others saying it's fine. Search SA1 on this forum and you'll get a lot of threads that resemble this one, all speculation. My advice is get an SD2SNES and then purchase the SA1 games that you want.

The only thing I'm missing out on right now are the JP SA1 games that have been translated. Emulation works fine for now.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: leonquest on May 22, 2018, 03:45 PM
Pretty sure the understanding is that no one knows yet. I've heard the argument that there's hardware limitations in onboard RAM size and others saying it's fine. Search SA1 on this forum and you'll get a lot of threads that resemble this one, all speculation. My advice is get an SD2SNES and then purchase the SA1 games that you want.

The only thing I'm missing out on right now are the JP SA1 games that have been translated. Emulation works fine for now.

Correct, until a developer tries and confirms that it can't be done, then it's all speculation.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Dup84 on June 02, 2018, 07:25 PM
Would it be possible to use an external device via USB to do some processing ?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 02, 2018, 10:06 PM
I hate to be that guy, but I personally don't see SA-1 happening on the SD2SNES as it is, since it's pretty much an Snes processor that's been souped up. Not gonna hold my breath >.> Though I kind of wished the SA-1 was emulated on the FPGA first, in all honesty, but to each their own. Not to discredit anyone's work, no, not at all, but it seems odd that the chip with the least amount of games, whereas the SA-1 has the most amount of games...anyway.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: iwasaperson on June 02, 2018, 10:44 PM
I hate to be that guy, but I personally don't see SA-1 happening on the SD2SNES as it is, since it's pretty much an Snes processor that's been souped up. Not gonna hold my breath >.> Though I kind of wished the SA-1 was emulated on the FPGA first, in all honesty, but to each their own. Not to discredit anyone's work, no, not at all, but it seems odd that the chip with the least amount of games, whereas the SA-1 has the most amount of games...anyway.
Maybe not full SA-1, but games rarely used the SA-1 for much more than copy protection + light processing. You could code a super incomplete SA-1 implementation just well enough to be able to run games.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 04, 2018, 04:01 AM
I hate to be that guy, but I personally don't see SA-1 happening on the SD2SNES as it is, since it's pretty much an Snes processor that's been souped up. Not gonna hold my breath >.> Though I kind of wished the SA-1 was emulated on the FPGA first, in all honesty, but to each their own. Not to discredit anyone's work, no, not at all, but it seems odd that the chip with the least amount of games, whereas the SA-1 has the most amount of games...anyway.
Maybe not full SA-1, but games rarely used the SA-1 for much more than copy protection + light processing. You could code a super incomplete SA-1 implementation just well enough to be able to run games.

See, that would be a good compromise and good enough to run Super Mario RPG, Kirby's Dream Land 3, etc. Whether or not the FPGA has room for even that, is unknown. So far, no one's stepped up to implement that chip or said if it can fit.  Unfortunately, I know nothing of pure ASM.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: dreimer on June 04, 2018, 03:10 PM
Not ASM, VHDL or VERILOG aka a hardware description language is what you are looking for.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 04, 2018, 05:59 PM
Not ASM, VHDL or VERILOG aka a hardware description language is what you are looking for.

Regardless, I still don't know any form of programming, so I can't help in that field. Sorry. Someone else is going to have to look into doing that.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 04, 2018, 05:59 PM
*Double post, sorry*
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: aterraformer on June 07, 2018, 02:45 AM
There are some SMW hacks that utilize SA-1 that would be really nice to play on console without having to buy and expensive flash cart for each of them or something silly like that.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: sdekaar on June 11, 2018, 07:35 PM
i need a gradius3 with the same hack. :)
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 12, 2018, 02:24 AM
i need a gradius3 with the same hack. :)

What does that have to do with an FPGA?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: DieKatzchen on June 18, 2018, 02:26 AM
If it's impossible, could it be proven impossible? Like, could a bounty be put up and promise a partial payout if it turns out to be impossible? It would be more tempting to a developer to try if they knew their time wouldn't be wasted.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Lord Awesomesauce on June 18, 2018, 01:19 PM
I thought there was already a $1,000 bounty for the SA-1, but I don't think it's a partial one (for at least a PoC to see if it's possible).
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 18, 2018, 06:13 PM
I thought there was already a $1,000 bounty for the SA-1, but I don't think it's a partial one (for at least a PoC to see if it's possible).

There is? Where is it posted? I mean, if it can't be done, then maybe a partial implementation is all that's needed; so far, no one has taken it on.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Alvis on June 18, 2018, 10:12 PM
https://twitter.com/picantelive/status/961352854681325569

This talk of "physically possible" is pointless. Turing machines can simulate each other. Whether that's practical or not is the real question.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 19, 2018, 02:49 AM
https://twitter.com/picantelive/status/961352854681325569

This talk of "physically possible" is pointless. Turing machines can simulate each other. Whether that's practical or not is the real question.

I'd rather have SA-1 more than the other remaining chips; S-DD1 is used by two games (one of which is a severely downgraded arcade port with horrible audio quality). SPC7110 is only used
by what, Far of East Eden?  SA-1 has Mario RPG, Kirby's Super Star, Kirby's Dream Land 3, Treasure Hunter G, so many more games.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Jdurg on June 19, 2018, 06:29 AM
Keep in mind that the presence of other chips has ZERO IMPACT on whether the SA-1 chip can be added.  Whatever chip is needed is only flashed/loaded when the specific ROM gets loaded. 

So it's not like removing the support for other chips will magically make the SA-1 chip fit.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: FeverDrive on June 19, 2018, 06:42 AM
https://twitter.com/picantelive/status/961352854681325569

This talk of "physically possible" is pointless. Turing machines can simulate each other. Whether that's practical or not is the real question.
I think "physically possible" means that the specific FPGA (which has a limited number of gates) has enough capacity to simulate the processor. The FPGA is a physical object.
By the way a Turing machine is a theoretical machine, it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: zstandig on June 19, 2018, 07:00 AM
If the SA-1 is just a souped up SNES CPU... can the SNES CPU be overclocked somehow and just use that?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Rakutenka on June 20, 2018, 05:07 AM
If the SA-1 is just a souped up SNES CPU... can the SNES CPU be overclocked somehow and just use that?

No. The game is coded to look for and use the SA-1. You would have to do some serious editing of the games' code to make this work and even then it likely wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: iwasaperson on June 20, 2018, 07:28 AM
No. The game is coded to look for and use the SA-1. You would have to do some serious editing of the games' code to make this work and even then it likely wouldn't work.
Actually fun fact, most SA-1 games just used it for DRM purposes, so it is theoretically possible to hack the games to not use it, but that would be a major pain. It would be easier to just make a half-assed SA-1 FPGA core with the CIC stuff and some of the 65816 stuff.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: dreimer on June 20, 2018, 11:09 AM
Actually fun fact, most SA-1 games just used it for DRM purposes, so it is theoretically possible to hack the games to not use it, but that would be a major pain. It would be easier to just make a half-assed SA-1 FPGA core with the CIC stuff and some of the 65816 stuff.

It's true that no game really used 100% of the SA-1, but it's entirely wrong that games ONLY used the CIC features. When a SA-1 is used then with a specific reason like sprite speedup.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: OneBagTravel on June 20, 2018, 05:40 PM
Actually fun fact, most SA-1 games just used it for DRM purposes, so it is theoretically possible to hack the games to not use it, but that would be a major pain. It would be easier to just make a half-assed SA-1 FPGA core with the CIC stuff and some of the 65816 stuff.
No idea who started this 'fact'.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 20, 2018, 06:18 PM
Actually fun fact, most SA-1 games just used it for DRM purposes, so it is theoretically possible to hack the games to not use it, but that would be a major pain. It would be easier to just make a half-assed SA-1 FPGA core with the CIC stuff and some of the 65816 stuff.
No idea who started this 'fact'.

So you're saying we should give up on ever seeing it implemented?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: OneBagTravel on June 20, 2018, 07:32 PM
So you're saying we should give up on ever seeing it implemented?
No idea how you extrapolated that out of my comment. You said you stated a fact which made me question your source for said fact. Do you have sources for your fact?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: dreimer on June 20, 2018, 08:18 PM
You forgot some " before and after the word fact ^^
Naah, this is NO fact, this is bollocks and it does not mean it's impossible, but it's no walk through the forest, too.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: iwasaperson on June 20, 2018, 08:29 PM
Better info on exactly what it does here: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15759

Maybe saying it was "only" for DRM was an oversimplification. The point is that it doesn't need to be completely implemented in order to run all released SA-1 games, which is important information as the SD2SNES likely could not fit a full SA-1 FPGA core on it.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on June 21, 2018, 02:14 AM
Better info on exactly what it does here: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15759

Maybe saying it was "only" for DRM was an oversimplification. The point is that it doesn't need to be completely implemented in order to run all released SA-1 games, which is important information as the SD2SNES likely could not fit a full SA-1 FPGA core on it.

Thread should close with this!
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 21, 2018, 03:03 AM
Better info on exactly what it does here: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15759

Maybe saying it was "only" for DRM was an oversimplification. The point is that it doesn't need to be completely implemented in order to run all released SA-1 games, which is important information as the SD2SNES likely could not fit a full SA-1 FPGA core on it.

But again, no one's tackling the chip's implementation, so I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon  :-\
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: dreimer on June 21, 2018, 01:40 PM
Everyone here is free to tackle it. That's what open source means ^^ These threads don't help anyone, because all ppl do is heat up old FACTS for nothing. If some uber code like redguy or someone else decides to try, then he will do with and without these monthly threads. Please close, thx ^^
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Arnold101 on June 25, 2018, 08:34 PM
Yes is possible.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: James-F on June 26, 2018, 08:25 AM
Posted by RedGuy on Discord an hour ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHMnT5aOcg
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on June 26, 2018, 08:31 AM
Well that was fast!
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: leonquest on June 26, 2018, 09:04 AM
Posted by RedGuy on Discord an hour ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHMnT5aOcg

I love just how redguy shut down so  many negative nancies and ignorant naysayers around here that insisted SA-1 wasn't possible on the sd2snes by simply posting a video. Goooooo redguyyy!!!!
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: James-F on June 26, 2018, 09:35 AM
So to answer this threads' question;

Apparently it is indeed possible to emulate the SA-1 instruction set on the SD2SNES FPGA by a very experienced software engineer.

Our candy retro ass doesn't deserve this man immense talent and experience,,, and we get it for free.
His contribution is ankle kissing worthy, without feeling less manly for a single second.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 26, 2018, 10:14 AM
Posted by RedGuy on Discord an hour ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHMnT5aOcg

W..w.w..wh...what...? Wow, uh, dayum, his work...masterful. We are not worthy  :o 8)

SA-1 implementation and GSU/GSU-2 just made the SD2SNES even more awesome, because it was awesome before  ;D
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: AlxUnderBase on June 26, 2018, 10:18 AM
Incredible !
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 26, 2018, 10:22 AM
Incredible !

Tell me about it, I can't thank him enough for that huge milestone.  ;D
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: butfluffy on June 26, 2018, 02:20 PM
this is amazing news. exciting times for sd2snes owners.
 i was already so pleased to see superfx support and now redguy posts this video :)
 it's a good job i'm typing because i'm speechless.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Jegriva on June 26, 2018, 03:10 PM
Posted by RedGuy on Discord an hour ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHMnT5aOcg


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: leonquest on June 26, 2018, 03:19 PM
So to answer this threads' question;

Apparently it is indeed possible to emulate the SA-1 instruction set on the SD2SNES FPGA by a very experienced software engineer.

Our candy retro ass doesn't deserve this man immense talent and experience,,, and we get it for free.
His contribution is ankle kissing worthy, without feeling less manly for a single second.


Ankle kissing? Im willing to donate! What's his patreon?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on June 26, 2018, 04:17 PM
Look at Redguy being the Ace Rimmer of SD2SNES firmware. That's awesome! Did he give any word on the Discord page as to if/when this will be available to the end user? And since there's always concern about how much room is left on the FPGA, did he indicate if this would this require an independent firmware without GSU and other enhancement chips or would it just be added on with the rest no problem?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: SteelRush on June 26, 2018, 04:24 PM
Look at Redguy being the Ace Rimmer of SD2SNES firmware. That's awesome! Did he give any word on the Discord page as to if/when this will be available to the end user? And since there's always concern about how much room is left on the FPGA, did he indicate if this would this require an independent firmware without GSU and other enhancement chips or would it just be added on with the rest no problem?

The cores are loaded on demand, so GSU support won’t take away from any other enhancement chip.  When they talk about it fitting, they just mean are there enough logic gates on the FPGA to emulate that particular chip.  It has nothing to do with what’s already supported.

I was one who has been sitting on the sidelines with a Super UFO until either the SuperFX or SA1 was supported.  I just ordered my SD2SNES yesterday, not knowing SA1 is in the works too.  I doubt I am the only one who has been waiting.  I am looking forward to getting mine even more now.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 26, 2018, 05:36 PM
So to answer this threads' question;

Apparently it is indeed possible to emulate the SA-1 instruction set on the SD2SNES FPGA by a very experienced software engineer.

Our candy retro ass doesn't deserve this man immense talent and experience,,, and we get it for free.
His contribution is ankle kissing worthy, without feeling less manly for a single second.

Ankle kissing? Im willing to donate! What's his patreon?

The man deserves a medal, not sure if he has a Patreon though. I'm sure we'll get a chance to help test as we did with the GSU at some point.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on June 26, 2018, 06:01 PM
I can't figure out how to even use Discord, did red guy describe his approach or anything like that?  Would be nice to hear his story.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on June 26, 2018, 06:18 PM
I can't figure out how to even use Discord,

Same here. I got on there once to see if there were any SD2SNES or Super NT updates and it just looked like a confusing mess to me.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 26, 2018, 06:20 PM
I can't figure out how to even use Discord,

Same here. I got on there once to see if there were any SD2SNES or Super NT updates and it just looked like a confusing mess to me.
Updates require no more than placing files on the SD card root.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on June 26, 2018, 06:30 PM
I can't figure out how to even use Discord,

Same here. I got on there once to see if there were any SD2SNES or Super NT updates and it just looked like a confusing mess to me.
Updates require no more than placing files on the SD card root.

No, you're completely misunderstanding me. I'm saying trying to make heads or tails of Discord is a confusing mess. I have no idea how to use it or find anything on there.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 26, 2018, 07:40 PM
I can't figure out how to even use Discord,

Same here. I got on there once to see if there were any SD2SNES or Super NT updates and it just looked like a confusing mess to me.
Updates require no more than placing files on the SD card root.

No, you're completely misunderstanding me. I'm saying trying to make heads or tails of Discord is a confusing mess. I have no idea how to use it or find anything on there.

Oh that, it's not a bad as it looks
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Jdurg on June 26, 2018, 08:41 PM
If the main discussion about the progress, updates, etc. will be in Discord, would someone mind linking to the discord server where updates are being posted?  I have a discord account, but yeah, discord is horrible if you are trying to search for something.  If given a direct link, it works fine.  But if you don't have that direct link, forget about finding anything on discord.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: OneBagTravel on June 26, 2018, 08:44 PM
Redguy does it again. I'd gladly throw him some cash for this. Wish he posted more updates here than Discord.

I love just how redguy shut down so  many negative nancies and ignorant naysayers around here that insisted SA-1 wasn't possible on the sd2snes by simply posting a video. Goooooo redguyyy!!!!
Pretty sure it was only one or two people here saying it wasn't possible. More of the know-how on how to develop the chip than physical limitations. It's safe to say we're all really glad Redguy took on this project.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: James-F on June 26, 2018, 09:07 PM
https://discord.gg/CuCGbP

Nice people are welcome.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Jdurg on June 26, 2018, 09:45 PM
https://discord.gg/CuCGbP

Nice people are welcome.

Many thanks James-F.  Much appreciated.  I likely won't be interacting there much as a lot of this is way over my head, but it's nice being able to read and partially understand what's going on.  Heh. 
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: leonquest on June 26, 2018, 11:22 PM
It's safe to say we're all really glad Redguy took on this project.

Yes sir, we are.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Sarge on June 27, 2018, 01:08 AM
This is absolutely amazing.  I was going to start up Marvelous! on the SNES Classic, but now, I think I may just wait it out.  (I even imported the SFC cart, just because I wanted to own it.  Too bad some of those SFC RPGs are so pricey!)
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on June 27, 2018, 02:09 AM
Here's what redguy said over on Discord since uploading the video.

Quote from: redguy
I will probably miss several questions. Here's a short summary:

* It's not complete. I'm still trying to fit all the dma stuff plus several other features

* The kirbys work. The fishing game seems to work along with some of the others that don't use dma or interrupts extensively. smrpg works up until the level up screen which uses character conversion dma. I'm working on that now. Most other games are untested and probably broken right now.

*  I don't think msu will fit. Will have to check when more games work.

* The 65816 is mostly implemented, but not well tested. Emulation mode is probably broken. BCD format is missing. All the weird memory addressing modes and native instructions are implemented, though.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 27, 2018, 03:07 AM
Here's what redguy said over on Discord since uploading the video.

Quote from: redguy
I will probably miss several questions. Here's a short summary:

* It's not complete. I'm still trying to fit all the dma stuff plus several other features

* The kirbys work. The fishing game seems to work along with some of the others that don't use dma or interrupts extensively. smrpg works up until the level up screen which uses character conversion dma. I'm working on that now. Most other games are untested and probably broken right now.

*  I don't think msu will fit. Will have to check when more games work.

* The 65816 is mostly implemented, but not well tested. Emulation mode is probably broken. BCD format is missing. All the weird memory addressing modes and native instructions are implemented, though.

Dang, a lot of work, but still, looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Missingno255 on June 27, 2018, 04:29 AM
Holy shit, RedGuy is amazing! I'm so glad I was proven wrong!

I can't wait to try this, once there's a release!
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on June 27, 2018, 07:51 AM
Here's what redguy said over on Discord since uploading the video.

Appreciate the summary. 
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: rocketblast on June 27, 2018, 05:48 PM
This will be an excellent addition to the sd2snes on top of the analogue super nt.  Great work and thanks to ikari and krikzz for the flash cart.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: OneBagTravel on June 27, 2018, 07:20 PM
I already own the SA-1 games I wanna play except the translated version of Daisenryaku Expert WWII: War in Europe. Here's hoping that one doesn't need much work.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 27, 2018, 10:22 PM
This will be an excellent addition to the sd2snes on top of the analogue super nt.  Great work and thanks to ikari and krikzz for the flash cart.
Indeed, best way to play Snes games.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: FeverDrive on June 28, 2018, 06:46 AM
Posted by RedGuy on Discord an hour ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHMnT5aOcg
Holy. fucking. shit.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on June 28, 2018, 07:19 AM
Posted by RedGuy on Discord an hour ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHMnT5aOcg
Holy. fucking. shit.

Tell me about, a very pleasant surprise for sure
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: BBDragon on June 28, 2018, 09:21 PM
https://discord.gg/CuCGbP

Nice people are welcome.
James-F
Please, would you be so kind to post new invite? The old one is expired(
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: James-F on June 29, 2018, 01:45 PM
This one is permanent:
https://discord.gg/EX57xnF
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: FrenchyToasty on July 02, 2018, 03:26 AM
Redguy

http://yourethemannowdog.ytmnd.com

yes I did post a YTMND, the original at that!
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: rocketblast on July 02, 2018, 08:59 PM
Hoping to see pre-releases soon.  Great work.  :)
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on July 03, 2018, 09:40 AM
Hoping to see pre-releases soon.  Great work.  :)

It won't be for some time, it's a lot of work, slow and steady wins the race, as they say, heh
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: MockyLock on July 03, 2018, 12:18 PM
Well, ReGuyyy did already surprise a lot of people how fast he made FX possible.
So, well, wait and see :D

EDIT : 666 posts !
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on July 04, 2018, 12:15 AM
Hoping to see pre-releases soon.  Great work.  :)

It won't be for some time, it's a lot of work, slow and steady wins the race, as they say, heh

You've certainly been far from Nostradamus on this subject!   ;D
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on July 04, 2018, 01:16 AM
Hoping to see pre-releases soon.  Great work.  :)

It won't be for some time, it's a lot of work, slow and steady wins the race, as they say, heh

You've certainly been far from Nostradamus on this subject!   ;D

It's nice to be so loved on here  ::)
Well, I don't want people to give the impression that they have to try beta builds of SA-1 now?  I want Redguy to take his time.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: FrenchyToasty on July 05, 2018, 05:15 AM
I understand that you are eager and can't barely contain your excitement, I've seen that on GBATemp too few times already!
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on July 05, 2018, 09:30 AM
I understand that you are eager and can't barely contain your excitement, I've seen that on GBATemp too few times already!

Excuse me? ???
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on July 05, 2018, 05:57 PM
Well, you dismissed SA-1 attempts for the last several weeks, first saying it wouldn't fit on the FPGA, then nobody was working on it, then it's gonna take quite a while for a beta, etc, etc.  I just poked fun at your lack of success in prognosticating. 
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: James-F on July 05, 2018, 06:09 PM
Well he is not called the randomizer for nothing.  ;D
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: FrenchyToasty on July 05, 2018, 06:13 PM
That's what happen when you're impatient, you jump to conclusions based on posts by people who speak through their hats and know nothing. Wait for the pros to handle things and then enjoy!

I never dismissed that the guys would be able to get SA-1 working nor Super FX, I mean there are truly gifted programmers out there, they just have their lives arround these projects, like the Saturn Satisfier, it's slowly being made but it's coming.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on July 05, 2018, 07:18 PM
Okay, I get it, I made a mistake, sheesh. Sooo sorry for being human.  :-\ I'm not the one who originally said SA-1 wouldn't fit on the FPGA.  Well, I'd best take a break from here for a while, people sure love calling me out.  :'(
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Relikk on July 05, 2018, 08:04 PM
Don't concern yourself with the opinions of nobodies on the internet. Just do your thing.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Sarge on July 05, 2018, 08:07 PM
I'm going to take the_randomizer's side here.  No one knew if it work or not.  The fact that Redguy has apparently managed to nearly pull it off, despite years of ikari expressing his doubts that it would ever happen, isn't proof that he was right or wrong.  There's no sense in crowing about someone being "right" or "wrong" when there were absolutely serious doubts whether it could be done from the experts.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: dreimer on July 05, 2018, 09:17 PM
https://sd2snes.de/blog/status nowhere a NOPE, does not fit @SA-1. But to help the other side, too: Even jwdonal from VeriSNES project said it will be a rough ride to make it fit on our FPGA if you plan to fully support it. It was more or less obvious that the probability would become still rough but waay better that some games might be tricked to run by skipping the stuff no game ever used. What redguy will skip if there is something to skip at all, we will see, when he releases his work.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: FrenchyToasty on July 05, 2018, 11:02 PM
I was merely pointing it out, don't want to come off as aggressive or to "call the_randomizer out".
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on July 05, 2018, 11:46 PM
https://sd2snes.de/blog/status nowhere a NOPE, does not fit @SA-1. But to help the other side, too: Even jwdonal from VeriSNES project said it will be a rough ride to make it fit on our FPGA if you plan to fully support it. It was more or less obvious that the probability would become still rough but waay better that some games might be tricked to run by skipping the stuff no game ever used. What redguy will skip if there is something to skip at all, we will see, when he releases his work.

Does it matter how as long as it's done?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on July 06, 2018, 05:05 AM
Well I think Mr. Toasty is being a bit rude, whereas I was just teasing. 
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: OneBagTravel on July 06, 2018, 08:19 PM
I just hope some of us here have learned their lesson to not speak out of school on subjects you don't know much about.

On a completely unrelated note, could the_randomizer give their predictions on the World Cup finals?  ;)
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: the_randomizer on July 06, 2018, 09:29 PM
Well I think Mr. Toasty is being a bit rude, whereas I was just teasing.
We talked it out in a PM, we're good  :P
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: hexcode99 on July 07, 2018, 11:57 AM
If SA-1 support gets added. Will MSU-1 music be possible with games like Super Mairo RPG? Additionally, with recent support of SuperFX, MSU-1 music is now possible with games like Star Fox?
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Relikk on July 07, 2018, 12:47 PM
If SA-1 support gets added. Will MSU-1 music be possible with games like Super Mairo RPG? Additionally, with recent support of SuperFX, MSU-1 music is now possible with games like Star Fox?

It remains to be seen and there has been nothing official, yet. It's early days, though. We'll find out soon enough.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: hexcode99 on July 07, 2018, 02:05 PM
If SA-1 support gets added. Will MSU-1 music be possible with games like Super Mairo RPG? Additionally, with recent support of SuperFX, MSU-1 music is now possible with games like Star Fox?

It remains to be seen and there has been nothing official, yet. It's early days, though. We'll find out soon enough.

Is there a reason MSU1 works with the other enhancement chips but might not the recently added SuperFX or upcoming SA1? 
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Missingno255 on July 07, 2018, 09:15 PM
If SA-1 support gets added. Will MSU-1 music be possible with games like Super Mairo RPG? Additionally, with recent support of SuperFX, MSU-1 music is now possible with games like Star Fox?

It remains to be seen and there has been nothing official, yet. It's early days, though. We'll find out soon enough.

Is there a reason MSU1 works with the other enhancement chips but might not the recently added SuperFX or upcoming SA1?
It works with SuperFX/GSU. It possibly won't work with SA-1 due to FPGA space as SA-1 uses all of the space, and the MSU-1 core has to be loaded at the same time SA-1 is, since the cores are loaded to the FPGA on demand.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: hexcode99 on July 07, 2018, 11:03 PM
Well, I hope they can at least get SMRPG with MSU1 audio working.  :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9ZmOktINI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td0-5DrsQNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abDCsQrDLTE
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on July 08, 2018, 12:26 AM
As I find MSU1 modding overrated and a huge nuisance, as long as the games work as is, with saving abilities, I'm ecstatic.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: fandangos on July 08, 2018, 12:45 AM
As I find MSU1 modding overrated and a huge nuisance, as long as the games work as is, with saving abilities, I'm ecstatic.

I agree with you.
Not sure if it's the nostalgia feeling but I tried every Donkey Kong Country MSU avaliable and I still prefer the original.

Excelt for situations where the audio was down sampled like street fighter alpha and you have a PCM version audio from the cps2 board I don't like changing the originals.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: hexcode99 on July 08, 2018, 01:30 AM
I agree that the original audio can sometimes be the best.
But mods like the below are what got me interested is SD2SNES and MSU1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj0H4P5ROPU&t=195s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INFGJ64XlhA&t=118s
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: FartPuff on July 08, 2018, 03:40 AM
Completely agree.  And, if I'm not mistaken MSU-1 audio is a patch to the core and slightly increases the FPGA gate usage.  I think that's where the confusion was had - inclusion of special features like that being mistaken for something else.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: dreimer on July 08, 2018, 04:12 PM
ppl should learn to READ: http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=7451.msg61356#msg61356
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: FartPuff on July 09, 2018, 03:56 AM
A visual aid:

(http://gallery.esfbc.com/albums/userpics/10001/fpga_cores.png)

http://gallery.esfbc.com/albums/userpics/10001/fpga_cores.png
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Sarge on July 09, 2018, 05:29 AM
Perhaps another way to think of it is like RAM.  (It's not, I know.)  You've got different modules that all take differing amounts of RAM to load into memory, so you have to pick and choose which ones to load in.  Given that SA1 would take up all the "RAM", there's no room left to load in the MSU module.

Now, substitute "RAM" with "logic blocks", and I think that gives the picture.

Also, a personal request:  there's no sense in being rude to folks that don't understand how all this works.  It might get old explaining things, but even then, we can be nice in pointing folks to the answer if it's a question that has already been asked.

On top of that, once again, I'd like to thank both ikari and Redguy (and any other folks that may have contributed!) for all their hard work.  I'm still flabbergasted that this might be possible after all.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on July 09, 2018, 03:58 PM
Perhaps another way to think of it is like RAM.  (It's not, I know.)  You've got different modules that all take differing amounts of RAM to load into memory, so you have to pick and choose which ones to load in.  Given that SA1 would take up all the "RAM", there's no room left to load in the MSU module.

Now, substitute "RAM" with "logic blocks", and I think that gives the picture.

I think that's a pretty good analogy. I'll be the first to admit that I didn't know exactly how it all worked, but that makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: D4v3WTF on July 09, 2018, 08:28 PM
Good news that Redguy ist taking on the SA-1. I think this will take a bit longer to implement. I have one question to the tech guys here, would it be possible to split the SA-1 core? Let’s say, for Mario RPG the SD2SNES firmware uses the SA-1-1, for Kirby it uses SA-1-2 and so on. To know which core to use, it reads the header from the ROM. Just my idea after a few beers  ;D

Greets
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Greg2600 on July 09, 2018, 10:36 PM
It's probably not necessary.  Last update from redguy indicated work/time is needed to write various functions into his firmware, moreso than running out of space.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: Hanafuda on July 12, 2018, 01:30 AM
As I find MSU1 modding overrated and a huge nuisance, as long as the games work as is, with saving abilities, I'm ecstatic.

Hear, hear! It's like if your wife puts on a wig for you during sex - fun once, but not every time.
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: dreimer on July 12, 2018, 09:53 AM
Hear, hear! It's like if your wife puts on a wig for you during sex - fun once, but not every time.

Who needs a wig for that if they always demand the light to be switched off? ^^
Anyways... you all start to talk about things again which will end in a completely different way once more.
This whole thread is full of useless assumptions and claims. JUST WAIT FOR THE END RESULT, THANK YOU ^^
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: James-F on July 12, 2018, 10:11 AM
This whole thread is full of useless assumptions and claims. JUST WAIT FOR THE END RESULT, THANK YOU ^^
Ladies and Gentlemen we have a winner comment.
+1
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: rocketblast on July 16, 2018, 07:24 PM
Still no relevent comments, figures :P Will wait for redguyyy to comment then we will see how things are going :)
Title: Re: Is it physically impossible to emulate the SA-1 on the SD2NES?
Post by: goombakid on July 30, 2018, 07:40 AM
Seeing as Redguy has done it and it has been tested by Smokemonster, I split up the topic and am now locking this thread.

Go check out the new thread HERE. (http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=8036.0)