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Messages - Necronomfive

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I go to test it on my Nomad (which has been modded for sms) and find the YM2413 feature not working at all, for the most part being silent.

The Nomad doesn't support expansion audio on the cartridge port, since it lacks the required audio mixing circuit.

A fix for that problem would also be appreciated lol.

The problem with OutRun can not be fixed in Hardware, because:

1. The game disables the PSG on the SMS, but still writes to the PSG registers (in particular, the noise channel)
2. It is not possible to disable the PSG on the Mega Drive due to missing signal line on the cartridge port (which is present on the SMS)

You need to get somebody to patch the ROM for you. Or drive your car into the mud lol.

I second this.  The filter is WAY too strong and really hurts the sound.  What you think sounds good may not sound good to most, and this seems to be a recurring complaint.  The FM sound really should be able to be heard as originally intended with no filter if the user so chooses.  Should be easy enough to reduce the filter effect a bit or implement a menu option to turn it off completely.

Ummm, you seem to be missing the fact that the filtering is caused by the internal Mega Drive amplification circuit. It also occurs using a real YM2413 (as shown by RetroRGB's comparison video). And for sure, it also affects the internal PSG & FM sound generation.

So, hardware modifications like MegaAmp actually DO exist for a reason. ;)

Btw, just one more clarification:

I went ahead and upgraded from an X5 to an X7 solely for your FM implementation, so I hope this is a feature that gets added sometime soon :)

I feel honored by your buying decision. However, my free contribution was developed in my spare time as a hobby. And I strictly like keep my hobby as a hobby.

Meaning: the fact that you invested money, does not spark any kind of obligation from my side to take your suggestions, since there is no customer relationship between us. ;)

Having said that, of course if you find a bug, I'm trying to fix it based on my personal time / interest. Differences in audio mixes / amplifications circuits clearly do not fall into this cathegory (same discussion in VRC7 mapper forum).



Checklist of some relevant items:
    Yes, Mega Amp, installed correctly to YM3438 R&L and SN76489

Yeah, but there is a third sound source which needs to be mixed: external signal coming from the cartridge port.

Regarding your Model 2:

Both YM2413 & WAV playback does not work.
SMS Bios function, however, does work.

-> Z80 I/O write cycle to FPGA does work (required by BIOS & YM2413)
-> MegaAmp probably does not mix the external audio signal

I would re-check the modification carefully.

Regarding your Model 3:

Model 3 Genesis does not support SMS mode AFAIK.

Since YM2413 was never advertised for the Mega ED
wrong: now is advertised officially.

Do you realise that your answer is, in no way, a contradiction to my original sentence?
Yes, it is now advertised officially. With my full endorsement, I might add.

So people, who buy an Everdrive X7 now, get the YM2413 as a free bonus on-top.
Before that, nobody had any real reason to complain about lack of YM2413 support. It was never advertised.

Understood now?

your various grievances to my contribution here.
wrong again. i don't want to do any of that to you.

First, learn to quote correctly.

THIS is what I wrote:

Quote from: Necronomfive
I fail to see the relevance of your various grievances to my contribution here.

Meaning: what has a discussion about lack of file sorting, FDS sound or EverDrive GB related stuff lost here?

Right, nothing.

it was ONLY an example, no one want to go offtopic here. you talked about me and i have replied to you, simple :)


Instead of krikzz that not improve nothing here. Not even a simple auto sort.

Yeah, right. Using my work as an argument to slag-off other people. While, at the same time, contributing nothing productive by yourself.

For me, this is the worst kind of way how to associate and mis-use my work. :(

Hence, those will now be my last words on this.

i am having problems getting it to work. when i switch ym2413 on in the menu, i get no sound at all on the games that support it. regular SMS games sound fine. i am using a japan MD model 2 VA0 with the current firmware v3.04

thank you!

Checklist of some relevant items:

- Is your MD modded in any kind of way (e.g. audio amplification circuit mod)?
- How is your MD hooked to your TV?
- Anything else hooked to your MD? (e.g. Mega CD, 32X)
- What happens if you try to play WAV files?
- Is an SMS game >= 128K working correctly?
- Is the bios working correctly? (e.g. does it boot from splash screen to the game correctly?)

@Necronomfive - Excellent work, the sound is really accurate to the original:

Thank you for the comparison! It's good to know that a real YM2413 sent through the MD has the same kind of low-pass filtering from the audio mixing circuit. This has actual relevance for me, because now I know that the update rate for the noise LFSR is actually correct in my core.

but i'm hungry with krikzz for he's poor support to hardware, example the bad fds sound and no new mappers or other example is the GG card, there are still games that don't boot or have problems...after 7 years or so? And really he have put out a gbed x5 card with instant loading after only 2 years the normal GBED was out? no words, very disappointed.

Since YM2413 was never advertised for the Mega ED, I fail to see the relevance of your various grievances to my contribution here.

Therefore, I kindly ask you to start your own individual threads to vent your disappointment about various of krikzz products.

The next thing would be someone complaining here about the lack of 3D glasses support for the SMS mode.... Now THAT is actually a feature which has been available in the US / EUROPE!

Ups! Sorry, krikzz! ;)



Tried this out last night with both Shinobi and the SMS Power translation of Phantasy Star. Wow - this sounds absolutely fantastic! Does this have less background noise/buzz than discrete YM2413 solutions, similar to the ASIC YM3438 vs the discrete YM2612 in Mega Drive models? It wasn't really noticeable at all in my quick test, but I've heard things like the PowerBase FM or VileTim's SMS FM addon can be quite noisy.

I think this will depend heavily on the mixing circuit and age of your console. My Model 1 has a slight static buzzing noise over the headphone output (probably should recap it some day). Also, the Model 1 mixer tends to cut-off some of the higher frequency range. As a counter example, on the Everdrive N8 VRC7 mapper on my AV Famicom, the sound is much cleaner and sharper, despite using the same core.

In theory, the sound of the FPGA core should be more "clean" than the sound of the original chip. Whether that is desired is of course another question. :)

Anyway, thank you hugely, and let me know if you have any kind of tip jar - you've added huge value to my Mega Everdrive and saved me having to import any additional hardware to get the FM-SMS experience, so I feel I owe you a quid or two!

Thank you. :)

Your post here is already more than enough contribution.

Retro gaming and development is my hobby, meaning that my primary motivation is based on creating things which, firstly, get me excited.

The SMS FM sound was never an officially advertised feature of the Mega Everdrive, which I bought it on exactly those terms, and I have always been happy with it.

And yet, after making the VRC7 mapper, I saw the opportunity to add it as a nice bonus. So I did it. Now I have SMS FM sound, cool!  8)

What puzzles me to no end is how some people still manage to pull such negativity from other people's free contributions... Aren't there better ways spending your free time?



EverDrive N8 / Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« on: August 24, 2017, 12:52 AM »
If anyone wants to compare the real cartridge to the latest mapper, watch this :

Thanks for the video, and the nice introductory text.  :)

Interesting to hear that the real cartridge generates more background noise than the Everdrive N8.

In general, my core sounds quite similar. But if you listen closely, you can hear the differences.

But, even if somebody will provide accurate die shots of the VRC7, from which the instrument data can be perfectly retrieved, my core would still not sound 100% the same as the real chip due to the aforementioned differences in mixing and analogue sound reproduction.

Granted, if such data will be available some day, of course I will update the core accordingly.

gimmick sound is very high instead lagrange is low, why?

3 kids may individually shout much louder in a room than 9 kids, without waking their parents. In addition, the 9 kids also have a much softer and more distinguished voice than the 3 kids, which have raspy voices (probably from a cold).

Think about it. ;)

EverDrive N8 / Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« on: August 16, 2017, 11:13 PM »

only the assignment for Mapper 85 needs to be changed.

Since I consider my VRC7 implementation pretty much as complete, I just have given krikzz the full source RTL code.

Now he can make a new official OS update, which includes both my Sunsoft 5B and VRC7 mappers.

Hopefully, this will end now all confusion regarding the usage of my mappers.  ;)

In reality, the core could still be further pushed towards perfection, but I guess this is only possible once somebody decides to decap the VRC7, and extract the correct instrument ROM data.

Again, thanks for the positive feedback. It was a nice challenge "cracking" the most complex Famicom / NES sound mapper.  ;)



EverDrive N8 / Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« on: August 15, 2017, 03:13 PM »
MAPROUT.BIN is missing from the latest archive. Your modified version is still necessary though, correct?

Yes, I forgot to include it. Please use the MAPROUT.BIN from one of the archives I previously posted here.

I'm preparing a new version which includes the latest changes from the Mega Everdrive version.

Of course, the only real audience for such an updated core are developers, who actually want to do something on their own with the mapper.

Lagrange Point doesn't care about YM2413 functionality. ;-)

Hello all,

I have prepared a new test FPGA core for you:

It fixes a serious bug in the rhythm note trigger function (which, obviously, has been missed by most people  :P ;) ).

The ryhthm tracks of most games should now sound correctly. Most notorious example is Out Run.

Please note that this is a test core wil limited feature set. Only krikzz can do fully feratured cores.



Edit: It works. The Japanese bios just doesn't have a splash screen.

Just keep the japanese bios enabled, and try loading this here:

It's using both YM2413 & PSG for music.

This also works with the US/EU bios. There is a hidden game available... ;)



I don't understand this "I didn't see it on my end so you're full of crap" attititude.

Whoa, buddy! This is way out of line!  :(

Ever occured to you that I actually wasted MY time on you to actually reproduce your problem?

And when I failed to reproduce it, even though I already had a very strong feeling about the eventual outcome, I still tried to explore the background of your observation.

So this is what I get? Being put nasty words in my mouth!?! :(

Never mind.

Nope, I DO mind such rude behavior! :(

I don't know if you realize this, but just because you are using my core, doesn't give you the entitlement to treat me as service personnel.

In fact, I don't have to answer you at all.

And if I answer, the least I expect from people is to spend a minimum amount of effort on their side. Like, being able to hook up their console correctly, before enganging in pseudo-technical reasoning with the developers.

Sorry about that. doh.

You're welcome! :(

It seems fine when listening on a model 1 with headphones. It's just that when you listen through the TV, it's very low. Unless the FM uses stereo sound and it higher on the audio channel that's not plugged in to the TV. I do have a model 2 Genesis, I have to hook it up and see if I'm right as you can use stereo sound with the AV on that system.

My FM core drives both left and right audio pins with the same 50MHz 1 bit dithered signal. There is no difference in volume (you can easily check using headphones).

The signal is mixed from stereo to mono for the AV out of the Model 1, so I'm not sure to which channel you are referring, which is not supposed to be plugged to the TV.

Furthermore, on my TV, the mixing ratio between YM2612 and my FPGA YM2413 resembles the mixing ratio I hear on the headphone jacket of my Model 1.

On both, the YM2413 is only slightly quieter than the internal YM2612.

Using both mine and krikzz bitstreams, which are using exactly the same FM core, using exactly the same method to drive the DAC output pins on the FPGA.

So, again, I'm sorry but I can not confirm your observations.

Let's see what your test on the Model 2 will reveal.

The music sounds lower to me than the earlier RBF file and my JP SMS.

I have rechecked this, and can not confirm it. On my PAL Mega Drive V1 (no TMSS), both mine and krikzz's FPGA cores have identical volume.

Btw, the music volume depends strongly on the game. Some games are much quieter than other games.

Regarding the overall volume: yeah, my FPGA YM2413 is a bit quieter than the on-board YM2612.

On the other hand, I can only increase the volume in the digital domain. All YM2413 channels require a total dynamic range of 13 bits.

I have already compromised, and reduced it to 12 bits, which will already introduce slight clipping if all melodic and rhythm channels fire at once.

But, if I bit-crush the signal once more down to 11 bits, I start to get nasty clipping artefacts (phasing) when all melodic channels are being used (e.g. start-up sound of Chris Covell's YM2413 Tool).

So, just to get ahead of a possible debate here: no, I refuse to further increase the volume of the core, and butchering the audio quality just because people do not want to grab their TV remotes. ;)



EverDrive N8 / Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« on: August 09, 2017, 12:52 AM »
Hi. It is necessary that the console have an audio expansion chip to make work this mapper?, I was testing this in a PAL Frontloader NES and others clones but the only thing that takes to reproduce of the music are drums, so I guess so, it will be necessary, right?. See ya.

NES consoles do not support expansion audio. They need to be modified.

On top of that, A PAL NES runs both with wrong speed (50Hz vs. 60Hz) and pitch (1.66MHz audio clock vs. 1.79MHz).

Hence, before spending the effort to modify your PAL NES, in order to hear a horribly wrong soundtrack, I recommend to do the same thing as I did: get an AV Famicom. ;-)

EverDrive N8 / Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« on: August 07, 2017, 11:41 PM »
Who would had thought this was even possible! Great job! My Lagrange Point game will only get better.

Are you developing a new game?

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