EverDrive Forum

General => EverDrive N8 => Topic started by: mikejmoffitt on July 24, 2015, 09:27 AM

Title: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mikejmoffitt on July 24, 2015, 09:27 AM
It's 2015 and the Everdrive N8 still doesn't support the expansion audio to give Gimmick! its full soundtrack. This isn't a question, rather just voicing interest in full Sunsoft 5B mapper support.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: goombakid on July 24, 2015, 11:59 PM
KRIKzz mentioned that towards the end of summer, he'll start working on all (if not, most) of the current EDs.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Ice Man on August 01, 2015, 05:18 PM
The EDN8 can play expansion audio, however, you still need to mod your NES in order to actually hear it.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: butfluffy on August 01, 2015, 05:45 PM
i thought this was a not fully supported mapper issue though?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Great Hierophant on August 01, 2015, 08:29 PM
i thought this was a not fully supported mapper issue though?

It is, all mapper 69 games should work on the Everdrive, including Gimmick, but the Sunsoft 5B sound core is not emulated, so you cannot hear it.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Ice Man on August 02, 2015, 02:32 AM
I have to make an apology.
I tested it with my EDN8 and obviously the  audio coming from the 5B does not work!
I was thinking it did but I used a real cartridge and mixed it with the EDN8 somehow. :S
Sorry!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mikejmoffitt on August 13, 2015, 07:31 PM
I wonder if MMC5 audio has been implemented at all. If that's the case, MMC5's PRG mode 3 has the same capabilities of the Sunsoft 5B/5A/FME-7's PRG bankswitching. CHR Mode 3 is more or less the same as the Sunsoft scheme too. A mapper hack to MMC5 might be a good project...

EDIT: Never mind, MMC5 audio is not implemented either, though that is a little more understandable...
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: narshe on August 14, 2015, 12:48 AM
It is, all mapper 69 games should work on the Everdrive, including Gimmick, but the Sunsoft 5B sound core is not emulated, so you cannot hear it.

Does this mean that Gimmick! on an N8 Famicom running on a Famicom console should work just fine?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: newkind on August 14, 2015, 08:39 AM
I just tested Gimmick! with my EDN8 and Japanese Famicom and all is working fine, including sound :)
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mikejmoffitt on August 14, 2015, 09:37 AM
I just tested Gimmick! with my EDN8 and Japanese Famicom and all is working fine, including sound :)
No, that's not right. The game will make some sounds, but many are missing, including most sound effects (jump, star toss) and many parts of the music as well. Two square wave channels are inaudible.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: newkind on August 14, 2015, 02:49 PM
I just tested Gimmick! with my EDN8 and Japanese Famicom and all is working fine, including sound :)
No, that's not right. The game will make some sounds, but many are missing, including most sound effects (jump, star toss) and many parts of the music as well. Two square wave channels are inaudible.

You are right, I just compared it to the gameplay from youtube and some sound effects are missing :(
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: narshe on August 14, 2015, 05:56 PM
mikejmoffitt, sent you a PM
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mikejmoffitt on August 16, 2015, 08:19 PM
I think I have a solution for this problem. I will post about it soon.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: narshe on August 17, 2015, 07:17 PM


I think I have a solution for this problem. I will post about it soon.

I'm eagerly awaiting your reply. ;)

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mikejmoffitt on August 20, 2015, 10:41 AM
I promised a solution!
http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0043-ym2149-gimmick.html
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: narshe on August 20, 2015, 08:31 PM
I promised a solution!
http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0043-ym2149-gimmick.html

That is absolutely amazing Mike! Unfortunately I don't want to mod my NES. I am acquiring a real copy of Gimmick for the Famicom.

What I really would like is save state capabilities. I am going to be forced to buy the Powerpak because of this.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: rainwarrior on August 22, 2015, 02:08 AM
TheFox's FME-7 mapper has no expanion sound: http://kkfos.aspekt.fi/projects/nes/powerpak/powermappers/

So, there's really no working implementation of Sunsoft 5B + Savestates on the PowerPak either, currently. I think both the Everdrive and the PowerPak are probably capable of it though, just somebody needs to write the software.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Great Hierophant on August 22, 2015, 05:50 AM
TheFox's FME-7 mapper has no expanion sound: http://kkfos.aspekt.fi/projects/nes/powerpak/powermappers/

So, there's really no working implementation of Sunsoft 5B + Savestates on the PowerPak either, currently. I think both the Everdrive and the PowerPak are probably capable of it though, just somebody needs to write the software.

Loopy's Sunsoft 5B mapper does support expansion audio, although the output is a bit quiet compared to the internal audio of my NES.  http://home.comcast.net/~olimar/NES/
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: rainwarrior on August 22, 2015, 08:14 AM
Yeah, I use loopy's mappers for PowerPak (because I don't care about save states), and the 5B audio from that is fine. For me the levels aren't an issue because I did the audio mod with a 100k potentiometer instead of a fixed resistor. so I can adjust the volume to taste, easily.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on August 30, 2015, 09:36 PM
Hello guys,

before you all start to mod your NES/Famicom now with a real YM2149, I'd suggest to give the following update a try:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=00145453115459926249

The file 069.zip contains my own Sunsoft 5A/5B/FME-7 Mapper implementation. Unzip it, place it into the EDFC/MAPS directory (replacing the old 069.RBF), and enjoy! :-)

Since it is a completely new implementation, there still might be bugs and inaccuracies, so any bug reports are welcome. This update not only affects Gimmick!, but also other Sunsoft games aswell (like Batman - Return of The Joker).

Thanks goes out to krikzz for helping and providing all the necessary information to make your own Everdrive N8 FPGA bitstreams.

Oh, and of course: USE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!

Best regards,

Necronomfive

PS.: does anyone of if there is any kind of Sunsoft 5B test ROM which tests the YM2149 features Gimmick! doesn't use?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: neorocker7 on August 30, 2015, 10:04 PM
holy crap! amazing!

i just tested this out VS my cart copy of Gimmick. the star and jump sounds are a little bit off, but this is still absolutely phenomenal! thank you!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Cartina on August 30, 2015, 10:29 PM
I assume this requires a famicom AND famicom ED?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Ryoandr on August 31, 2015, 12:27 AM
Thanks goes out to krikzz for helping and providing all the necessary information to make your own Everdrive N8 FPGA bitstreams.
does this mean we might see more updated mappers ? That would be tremendous news
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on August 31, 2015, 01:09 AM
i just tested this out VS my cart copy of Gimmick. the star and jump sounds are a little bit off, but this is still absolutely phenomenal! thank you!

Thanks for your report, you are right!

Here is an improved version:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=26521450545492456899

The mapper is currently being tested on my AV Famicom, so I have no idea how the sound output is on an original Famicom / modded NES.

Actually, the sample FPGA project has been present a long time on krikzz page, so I am quite surprised that nobody else has been doing this so far.

But I am glad that others find this useful aswell. ;-)

Best regards,

Necronomfive
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: butfluffy on August 31, 2015, 04:35 AM
is there any chance krikzz could add any mapper improvements into his official OS releases?
 i mean if this sorta thing takes off and we get more people in the know improving mappers it would be easier if everything was included in one package rather than having to add custom mappers ourselves.
 sure as of now we don't have lots of custom mappers being made for the everdrive but maybe this sort of thing will happen more often in the future.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on August 31, 2015, 11:12 AM
When this sort-of beta testing phase is finished, krikzz gets my project files so he can include it in any official OS update, or make changes in case of new HW revisions, etc.

Right now, what would be nice would be:

-> Feedback from original Famicom / modded NES users
-> Some Sunsoft 5B sound reference running on real HW which uses the envelope and noise functions
-> Feedback from people noticing glitches or anomalies in other Sunsoft games using Sunsoft 5A/5B/FME-7 mapper

Best regards,

Necronomfive
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: newkind on August 31, 2015, 12:36 PM
Original Famicom user here.

First of all thank you for the mapper! :) I just gave a brief test to Gimmick! and Batman.

Batman - no issues noticed.

Gimmick! - once, at the end of the stage 1, whole screen got messed up graphics for 1-2 seconds and after that everything went back to normal
Also noticed weird scanlines on some objects (pictures below), but this can be my LCD aswell so not sure if that's normal. They are appearing depending on the movement -
if I'd do a one more step they'd be gone, and back when moved a little bit further.

Sound seems to be fine, I haven't noticed any delays.

(https://monosnap.com/file/D48o4jszsqdILd3cdadOEU9TkmyrjZ.png)
(https://monosnap.com/file/Iu7GJC7DwExm6CoSUlJ3VeRWHyn9ZW.png)
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on August 31, 2015, 03:34 PM
The scanlines seem to be a result of your LCD deinterlacing algorithm on flickering sprites. And sprite flickering is a pretty common technique used on the Famicom/NES due to the limitation of 8 sprites per scanline (the missiles are made of 2 sprites, and together with the worm, the sprite limit is exceeded).

But it's good to hear that the sound mix seems to be okay on an original Famicom. I vaguely remember that there are differences in the way both consoles mix the audio output together, and I just want to make sure that the extra channels have the correct volume on both consoles.

Thanks and best regards,

Necronomfive
Title: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: narshe on August 31, 2015, 04:30 PM
Does this mapper include save states or just sound?

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on August 31, 2015, 05:01 PM
No, it includes "just" sound. Save states have no priority for me.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: narshe on August 31, 2015, 05:24 PM
Thanks goes out to krikzz for helping and providing all the necessary information to make your own Everdrive N8 FPGA bitstreams.

Where is this information?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: pld on August 31, 2015, 05:41 PM
First of all, thanks for the efforts you put into this Necronomfive.

I used to speedrun Gimmick for a short period and I am owning the original Famicom cart which I am playing on my AV Famicom. I played through the game on my Famicom Everdrive with the latest mapper update to check if there are any differences compared to original cart.

Sound:
The soundtrack is way, way, way better than before and finally enjoyable but it still does not sound as powerful and voluminous as on original cart. Sound effects (jumping sound, starshot sound etc) are also finally there and since the last update they sound like they are supposed to sound.

Gameplay:
Gameplay wise I haven't noticed any differences or anomalies. I got the same sprite flickering as on my original cart so everything's correct here :)

I am very satisfied with this mapper update though I still have one thing that bothered me a little bit but I don't know if this has to do with the mapper or with the Everdrive itself. The sound volume is way lower than on original cart.

I hope I could help a bit :)
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on August 31, 2015, 06:14 PM
Hey pld,

thanks for your thorough report!

Regarding the low sound volume: do you mean the overall sound (all music+sfx), or just specific parts?

It is expected that the levels of the NES/Famicom sound channels are going to drop slightly once the FPGA actively drives the external audio pin. You can see the same effect when you start "Akumajou Dracula" on the Everdrive N8.

It's partly due to Everdrive N8 circuit design, but also due to the difference in output characteristics between a real Sunsoft 5B chip and the FPGA. Sunsoft 5B has a real analogue DAC, while the FPGA is feeding a digital I/O pin with a massively oversampled (50MHz sampling rate) and dithered waveform of the audio waveform signal.

BR,

Necronomfive
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: pld on August 31, 2015, 07:49 PM
Regarding the low sound volume: do you mean the overall sound (all music+sfx), or just specific parts?

yes, overall sound is lower compared to original cart
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Great Hierophant on September 01, 2015, 06:25 AM
On my Famicom AV, with the audio mixing set to HI, the expansion audio samples appear to be in balance with the internal audio.  The expansion audio sounds accurate, which is probably the first time I have been able to say that about the E8.  Good job!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: btrim on September 02, 2015, 04:28 AM
I don't have a cart to compare, but here's output from a modified NES-101 and modified ED, I think the ED mix is set to low, but both sounded "ok" to me.

https://youtu.be/qkaMTmi6Uz8
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: KRIKzz on September 02, 2015, 06:23 PM
i guess that mix level settings have no any effect over this mapper, probably Necronomfive's  mapper does not handle this option
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on September 03, 2015, 01:03 AM
Hello KRIKzz,

it's no problem to implement different mixing volumes, I just need to know how the OS tells the mapper (which map_cfg[] bit).

BR,

Necronomfive
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: KRIKzz on September 03, 2015, 10:36 AM
Hello KRIKzz,

it's no problem to implement different mixing volumes, I just need to know how the OS tells the mapper (which map_cfg[] bit).

BR,

Necronomfive

map_cfg[6]


Thanks goes out to krikzz for helping and providing all the necessary information to make your own Everdrive N8 FPGA bitstreams.

Where is this information?

http://krikzz.com/pub/support/index.php?dir=everdrive-n8%2Fdevelopment
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on September 03, 2015, 01:41 PM
Hi KRIKzz,

thanks for your help!

I have uploaded a new version here:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=50208122714712053393

Changes:

-> Famicom / NES native channel output is now louder
-> Mapper supports LO/HI mixing volume settings from OS configuration menu
-> PRG RAM is now 64K for home-brew purpose

Give it a try and let me know if there are any iprovements/regressions.
If it's good, I consider this the final release!

BR,

Necronomfive
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: xamphear on September 03, 2015, 07:35 PM
I have uploaded a new version here:
This is awesome. You are awesome. Do you have any way for people to send you donations as thanks and incentive for more mappers?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Ryoandr on September 03, 2015, 10:59 PM
Hi KRIKzz,

thanks for your help!

I have uploaded a new version here:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=50208122714712053393

Changes:

-> Famicom / NES native channel output is now louder
-> Mapper supports LO/HI mixing volume settings from OS configuration menu
-> PRG RAM is now 64K for home-brew purpose

Give it a try and let me know if there are any iprovements/regressions.
If it's good, I consider this the final release!

BR,

Necronomfive
This version has extra channels really quiet, on my 2 AV Famicom systems ; one uses nesrgb amp, the other uses a rebuilt audio circuit to make it identical to original famicom. The previous version sounded very close to recordings and emus.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: darcagn on September 04, 2015, 09:38 AM
Excellent to see someone working on improving the mappers! The sound is a lot quieter, though, than the sound I get from my reproduction copy of Gimmick!, and it sounds a little off as well. But it's definitely a great start!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on September 06, 2015, 12:40 AM
This version has extra channels really quiet, on my 2 AV Famicom systems ; one uses nesrgb amp, the other uses a rebuilt audio circuit to make it identical to original famicom. The previous version sounded very close to recordings and emus.

Ok, I changed the sound generation back to the old method, but still keeping the new options (HI and LO mixing volumes selectable via OS menu).

This version is available here:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=05251361785486878822

Quote from: darcagn
The sound is a lot quieter, though, than the sound I get from my reproduction copy of Gimmick!, and it sounds a little off as well

Can you point out one specific track/soundeffect which sounds "off"?

Thanks and BR,

Necronomfive
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: RetroDanâ„¢ on September 06, 2015, 01:33 AM
Wow, now that's the type of community support I like!  Like many people, I have been frustrated by the Everdrive's incomplete Mapper 69 support.  This is most welcome to see.  Fantastic job, Necronomfive!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: bozo55 on September 06, 2015, 07:18 AM
Is there a trick to getting this to work?

It gives a black screen on both my EDN8 FC version with AV Famicom and my N8 Nes Version on my US NES with 47k resistor.  I tried reformatting and using another card.  I made sure to copy the EDFC folder first after formatting (FAT32) and then erased 069.RBF and replaced it with the new 069.RBF.  I tried the 3rd and 4th versions, black screens on both setups.  I've tried 1GB and 2GB Kingston MicroSD cards.  Other games seem to work just fine, including the 085 mapper for Lagrange Point.

Oh and I've also tried another copy of this ROM.  But the ROM worked fine with the old 069 mapper, just it had no expansion sound.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: badsector on September 06, 2015, 02:36 PM
I got the same problem as bozo.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: XiTaU on September 06, 2015, 02:54 PM
have u guys tried installing a fresh copy of the latest os never know it might do the trick as it seems to not be a problem for most.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: badsector on September 06, 2015, 10:54 PM
I just installed OS 11.1, as I was unsure, if I had 11 or 11.1 and the menu always says 11. Still just a black screen.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: bozo55 on September 07, 2015, 03:37 AM
I just installed OS 11.1, as I was unsure, if I had 11 or 11.1 and the menu always says 11. Still just a black screen.

What console do you use? Maybe there's an issue with certain models.

I'm using a '95 model CPU-02 AV Famicom and a CPU-06 CPU-04 (d'oh) NES NTSC.  Also fails on a HVC-CPU-07 Famicom.

have u guys tried installing a fresh copy of the latest os never know it might do the trick as it seems to not be a problem for most.

Yes, I downloaded the latest 11.1, unzipped it with 7-Zip and copied it to my freshly formatted (with Windows 7 windows explorer) 2GB Kingston MicroSD card.  I then deleted 069.RBF and copied the new larger version (57kB).
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: badsector on September 07, 2015, 08:40 AM
I don't really know how to figure out (from the outside) which CPU version my US NES Frontloader has. I installed a NESRGB board a week ago, but did not have a look at the CPU.

By the way: Ufouria/Hebereke does not work with this mapper either, but worked before (although I think with a little bit off sound).
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: pelanas on September 09, 2015, 12:01 AM
mapper Versión 2 Works fine on my avfami running gimmick japan
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Great Hierophant on September 09, 2015, 06:07 AM
Version four works find with Hebereke for me
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: goombakid on September 10, 2015, 06:19 AM
Linked to THIS THREAD (http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=3405.0). If there are any updates to the mapper, please post there.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Xan on September 12, 2015, 03:51 PM
Got the same issue here as mentioned above... black screen and power cycling needed. GoodNES ROM, CPU-04 NTSC NES w/ 47k resistor, 8 gig class 10 Transcend SDHC. And Gimmick! worked with the stock mapper before.

Edit: and same thing with Dynamite Batman. If it helps, device info displays OS ver. 11 (11.1 really), Bios ver. 5, Cpld ver. 2. Mapper 069 isn't even listed as supported in mapper info.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mikejmoffitt on September 14, 2015, 07:00 AM
VERY excited to get home and give this a try soon. I have my Gimmick-audio-native NES (http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0043-ym2149-gimmick.html) controllable with a switch, so I can compare outputs immediately for you and let you know how things sound.

Ufouria/Hebereke should either just work or just not work - it does not use Sunsoft 5B audio at all, so this won't change how that game sounds.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: RickyKustafason on September 25, 2015, 09:03 PM
Tried this on OSv12 with USA Everdrive N8.  No expansion sounds.  So this only works on Famicon systems?  Sorry I know nothing about it but was excited to get the improved sound.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: RetroDanâ„¢ on September 25, 2015, 09:39 PM
Tried this on OSv12 with USA Everdrive N8.  No expansion sounds.  So this only works on Famicon systems?  Sorry I know nothing about it but was excited to get the improved sound.

The US Frontloader needs to be modded before you can hear the expansion audio:

http://www.retrofixes.com/2014/05/open-hidden-sound-channels-in-nes.html
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: RickyKustafason on September 26, 2015, 02:06 AM
Ah crap such an easy mod but I have a top loader  :'(
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: bozo55 on September 26, 2015, 05:27 PM
Updating to OS v12 finally got this working for me.  It's awesome, great work!  My desire to cannibalize a Gremlins 2 cart has diminished.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: badsector on September 30, 2015, 09:23 PM
I tried it with OS v13 and Version 4 of the mapper, still no luck.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: bozo55 on September 30, 2015, 10:07 PM
I tried it with OS v13 and Version 4 of the mapper, still no luck.

Try defragmenting the SD card.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: badsector on September 30, 2015, 11:19 PM
I copied all the data of the SD, reformatted and copied the data over again, like always when trying another version of this mapper. This time I actually did not get a black screen, but no extra sound either, although I got an ENIO board (with the resistor to enable ext sound on the NES).
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mikejmoffitt on October 01, 2015, 12:58 AM
I got it working fine on OS V13 and the latest copy of the mapper. It does not sound perfect compared to the original (I think the nonlinear amplitude curve of the original chip is hard to duplicate) but it is very close and much better than having nothing.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: neorocker7 on October 07, 2015, 05:04 AM
tried the latest version, and i'm incredibly impressed. thank you for your work!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: KRIKzz on October 07, 2015, 11:20 AM
I did not worked over expansion audio for this mapper
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: owlnonymous on November 17, 2015, 06:31 PM
Now that expansion audio is supported for the Sunsoft 5b mapper on the Everdrive N8, I wanted to show off the four Gimmick! hacks that I have. 

Video:
http://www.twitch.tv/owlnonymous/v/26259894


Hacks I played:
Hammick! - http://nemusg.com/hammick.html 

Gimmick Hack v4  - http://mrgimmick.proboards.com/thread/29/gimmick-hack
 
Dark Gimmick - http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2221 

Mr. Gimmick 2 - http://pacnsacdave.weebly.com/mr-gimmick-2.html 

As well as a comparrison of a Infinite NES Lives PCB vs the Everdrive N8:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sXNtVd3QZU
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Ice Man on November 18, 2015, 12:38 AM
Too bad Mr. Gimmick 2 can only be bought. Such a shame. :(
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: owlnonymous on November 18, 2015, 10:41 PM
Too bad Mr. Gimmick 2 can only be bought. Such a shame. :(

It's not good. Play Hammick! or Dark Gimmick.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Ice Man on November 18, 2015, 11:45 PM
Already played Dark Gimmick. Pretty sweet. ;)
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: nuu on November 19, 2015, 01:01 AM
As well as a comparrison of a Infinite NES Lives PCB vs the Everdrive N8:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sXNtVd3QZU
Cool! How does it compare to the original?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on November 19, 2015, 02:30 AM
That's so cool. I have a Mr Gimmick "full sound" repro on backorder from Flashback Entertainment which I can only assume uses the INL board. Maybe a comparison also to PowerPak is in order? Just an observation but overall the PowerPak had more accurate sound reproduction on the expansion channel that the stock Everdrive. I loved playing the NSF for Castlevania III JP and Esper Dreams on it. My friend and I beat the Castlevania III (JP version) for the first time originally on the PowerPak. I now have the US game but definitely the VRC6 sound on the stock mapper is a bit off. I have not installed the updated VRC6 and Sunsoft 5B mappers to my Everdrive yet but I need to. It's on my to-do list. ;D
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: owlnonymous on November 19, 2015, 11:49 PM
I have not heard the game an on original cart, but the Infinite NES Lives cart uses the same yamaha sound chip that is incorporated into the Sunsoft 5B mapper. Compared to the repo cart I have, the sound is very close, just a little lower volume.  I only know this because I play A LOT of Gimmick! I think most people with by VERY happy with this solution. Hopefully Krikzz will incorporate this into the next Os.

As for powerpak audio, I don't have one so I can not compare. I can ask a friend to make a video though. All we need now is save states for the mapper, so I can get some practice in on the harder strats of the game.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: nuu on November 21, 2015, 11:35 PM
I was under the impression that Infinite NES Lives used programmable logic for it's 5b sound chip.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: owlnonymous on November 30, 2015, 07:35 PM
I was under the impression that Infinite NES Lives used programmable logic for it's 5b sound chip.

No, it uses a Yamaha sound chip when opting for expansion audio, which is mounted to the top right side of the board.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: nuu on December 01, 2015, 10:42 PM
OK, it should be about identical to the real cart then.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 02, 2015, 01:22 AM
I have not heard the game an on original cart, but the Infinite NES Lives cart uses the same yamaha sound chip that is incorporated into the Sunsoft 5B mapper. Compared to the repo cart I have, the sound is very close, just a little lower volume.  I only know this because I play A LOT of Gimmick! I think most people with by VERY happy with this solution. Hopefully Krikzz will incorporate this into the next Os.

As for powerpak audio, I don't have one so I can not compare. I can ask a friend to make a video though. All we need now is save states for the mapper, so I can get some practice in on the harder strats of the game.
I've got a repro cart on the way so I could compare audio between PowerPak, Everdrive, and Yamaha repro.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Smashbro29 on December 07, 2015, 08:41 AM
So this isn't an issue with the Famicom or is it?

I'm getting the Famicom cart for my Famicom and I'm unsure.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 07, 2015, 09:02 AM
So this isn't an issue with the Famicom or is it?

I'm getting the Famicom cart for my Famicom and I'm unsure.
Famicom has native support for the expansion audio so you're good, assuming it's a real Gimmick. ;D
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Smashbro29 on December 07, 2015, 09:06 AM
So this isn't an issue with the Famicom or is it?

I'm getting the Famicom cart for my Famicom and I'm unsure.
Famicom has native support for the expansion audio so you're good, assuming it's a real Gimmick. ;D

Ok assume all I have is the rom, the N8 and an AV Famicom. Am I set?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 07, 2015, 09:15 AM
So this isn't an issue with the Famicom or is it?

I'm getting the Famicom cart for my Famicom and I'm unsure.
Famicom has native support for the expansion audio so you're good, assuming it's a real Gimmick. ;D

Ok assume all I have is the rom, the N8 and an AV Famicom. Am I set?
Well you said "the Famicom cart" so I assumed you meant the game. Be sure to install the updated sound mapper posted above in the appropriate folder.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Smashbro29 on December 07, 2015, 09:52 AM
So this isn't an issue with the Famicom or is it?

I'm getting the Famicom cart for my Famicom and I'm unsure.
Famicom has native support for the expansion audio so you're good, assuming it's a real Gimmick. ;D

Ok assume all I have is the rom, the N8 and an AV Famicom. Am I set?
Well you said "the Famicom cart" so I assumed you meant the game. Be sure to install the updated sound mapper posted above in the appropriate folder.

I don't understand much of what's going on, this just seems like the only problem game and I would like to figure out how to get it going before my cart arrives.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 07, 2015, 10:07 AM
So this isn't an issue with the Famicom or is it?

I'm getting the Famicom cart for my Famicom and I'm unsure.
Famicom has native support for the expansion audio so you're good, assuming it's a real Gimmick. ;D

Ok assume all I have is the rom, the N8 and an AV Famicom. Am I set?
Well you said "the Famicom cart" so I assumed you meant the game. Be sure to install the updated sound mapper posted above in the appropriate folder.

I don't understand much of what's going on, this just seems like the only problem game and I would like to figure out how to get it going before my cart arrives.
You will need to download the OS for Everdrive N8 and install to the root directory of the microSD card. Then take the Sunsoft mapper file posted in the OP of this thread, and drag it into the folder that contains the mapper files. All files must be unzipped. If you get a .zip, you'll need to extract it first. When prompted, select "yes" to overwrite the old file with the new one.

Next, create a new folder for your ROMs. These have a .nes extension. If you don't know where to get them, use a search engine but don't post requests here. It is not recommended to dump tons of ROMs in the root directory. If you have more than 250 ROMs, you'll need to split them into separate folders since the Everdrive software cannot read more than 252 files/folders per directory. I generally use alphabet but you can also manually create folders to sort games by genre, region or any other metric you choose.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Smashbro29 on December 07, 2015, 10:30 AM
So this isn't an issue with the Famicom or is it?

I'm getting the Famicom cart for my Famicom and I'm unsure.
Famicom has native support for the expansion audio so you're good, assuming it's a real Gimmick. ;D

Ok assume all I have is the rom, the N8 and an AV Famicom. Am I set?
Well you said "the Famicom cart" so I assumed you meant the game. Be sure to install the updated sound mapper posted above in the appropriate folder.

I don't understand much of what's going on, this just seems like the only problem game and I would like to figure out how to get it going before my cart arrives.
You will need to download the OS for Everdrive N8 and install to the root directory of the microSD card. Then take the Sunsoft mapper file posted in the OP of this thread, and drag it into the folder that contains the mapper files. All files must be unzipped. If you get a .zip, you'll need to extract it first. When prompted, select "yes" to overwrite the old file with the new one.

Next, create a new folder for your ROMs. These have a .nes extension. If you don't know where to get them, use a search engine but don't post requests here. It is not recommended to dump tons of ROMs in the root directory. If you have more than 250 ROMs, you'll need to split them into separate folders since the Everdrive software cannot read more than 252 files/folders per directory. I generally use alphabet but you can also manually create folders to sort games by genre, region or any other metric you choose.

Hope this helps.

Super helpful man, just breaks down to "mappers are downloads" right?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: blizzz on December 17, 2015, 04:31 PM
I made a comparison video between the original cartridge and the Everdrive N8 with adjusted volume. I don't hear a difference. Great job Necronomfive. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vve-jpZhi4g

Edit: Now that I listened to it again, I noticed a slight difference on the map screen. But nothing major.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 19, 2015, 09:42 AM
I made a comparison video between the original cartridge and the Everdrive N8 with adjusted volume. I don't hear a difference. Great job Necronomfive. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vve-jpZhi4g

Edit: Now that I listened to it again, I noticed a slight difference on the map screen. But nothing major.
Nice! I have the INL Repro with the sound chip in it. Sounds brilliant on my NES but because I have a grounded 10k potentiometer to adjust the audio, it was tricky setting the sound balance without a reference. Powerpak sounded a bit off compared to the repro cart so it's nice that the new Everdrive mapper is now almost perfect.

If I get around to doing a comparison video, I'll have to play my Everdrive in the AV Famicom and the Powerpak and repro cart in the NES. This is due to the fact the CopyUSB mod does not work with Everdrive and I don't yet have the Exp audio wired on my cart adapters.

I also need to test the VRC6 sound. I don't have a copy of CVIII JP, but I've played it on my Powerpak and the stock Everdrive mapper seems a bit off.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on December 19, 2015, 02:05 PM
TheFox's FME-7 mapper has no expanion sound: http://kkfos.aspekt.fi/projects/nes/powerpak/powermappers/
Does anyone have a mirror for "powermappers-v20.zip"? The page is dead and the file isn't archived on archive.org.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 19, 2015, 06:03 PM
TheFox's FME-7 mapper has no expanion sound: http://kkfos.aspekt.fi/projects/nes/powerpak/powermappers/
Does anyone have a mirror for "powermappers-v20.zip"? The page is dead and the file isn't archived on archive.org.
I never bothered with TheFox powermappers. I installed the Loopy mapper pack over the official 1.35b mappers. You do get Sunsoft audio but it is less accurate compared to the new and improved Everdrive mapper. Someone from NintendoAge might be able to help. There is an official PowerPak thread.

The original PowerPak audio had better VRC6 compared to stock Everdrive, but now there's an updated VRC6 for Everdrive as well I haven't tested yet.

It's definitely nice having both flashcarts in my arsenal.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on December 20, 2015, 05:10 AM
I never bothered with TheFox powermappers. I installed the Loopy mapper pack over the official 1.35b mappers. You do get Sunsoft audio but it is less accurate compared to the new and improved Everdrive mapper. Someone from NintendoAge might be able to help. There is an official PowerPak thread.

The original PowerPak audio had better VRC6 compared to stock Everdrive, but now there's an updated VRC6 for Everdrive as well I haven't tested yet.

It's definitely nice having both flashcarts in my arsenal.
I have both too, and I primarily use the N8, so it's not that big of an issue. On the Powerpak, I use both Loopy's mappers and then copy over them with TheFox's old save state mappers where applicable, so I just figured I'd try the most updated version of the save state mappers (aka the "Powermappers"). But of course, by the time I found out they exist (today), the link was long dead. Thanks anyway though, I'll check around NA.

Edit: Thanks for the tip. Found everything I needed to have an up to date PP on NA.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 20, 2015, 01:35 PM
I never bothered with TheFox powermappers. I installed the Loopy mapper pack over the official 1.35b mappers. You do get Sunsoft audio but it is less accurate compared to the new and improved Everdrive mapper. Someone from NintendoAge might be able to help. There is an official PowerPak thread.

The original PowerPak audio had better VRC6 compared to stock Everdrive, but now there's an updated VRC6 for Everdrive as well I haven't tested yet.

It's definitely nice having both flashcarts in my arsenal.
I have both too, and I primarily use the N8, so it's not that big of an issue. On the Powerpak, I use both Loopy's mappers and then copy over them with TheFox's old save state mappers where applicable, so I just figured I'd try the most updated version of the save state mappers (aka the "Powermappers"). But of course, by the time I found out they exist (today), the link was long dead. Thanks anyway though, I'll check around NA.

Edit: Thanks for the tip. Found everything I needed to have an up to date PP on NA.
Krikzz Everdrive would be almost perfect if he only included support for NSF files. That is the one thing the PowerPak did from day one the Everdrive lacks.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on December 20, 2015, 03:15 PM
Krikzz Everdrive would be almost perfect if he only included support for NSF files. That is the one thing the PowerPak did from day one the Everdrive lacks.
Yeah, that and the N8 also lacks support for Mapper 105 for those out there that wish to go after Thor Aackerlund's score.  ;D
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 20, 2015, 04:07 PM
Krikzz Everdrive would be almost perfect if he only included support for NSF files. That is the one thing the PowerPak did from day one the Everdrive lacks.
Yeah, that and the N8 also lacks support for Mapper 105 for those out there that wish to go after Thor Aackerlund's score.  ;D
Also the mapper for Homebrew World Championships 2012. PowerPak had an updated mapper for the proper timing of 6:21 buried somewhere deep in the PowerPak thread on NintendoAge. DIP switches cannot be modified without updating the mapper.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: mrpopsicleman on December 21, 2015, 09:08 AM
Also the mapper for Homebrew World Championships 2012. PowerPak had an updated mapper for the proper timing of 6:21 buried somewhere deep in the PowerPak thread on NintendoAge. DIP switches cannot be modified without updating the mapper.
Yeah, it's included in the "ultimate" mapper packs over there now.

Ultimate Mapper Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vbdj43u2kvu15b/ULTIMATE%20MAPPERS.rar?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vbdj43u2kvu15b/ULTIMATE%20MAPPERS.rar?dl=0)
Includes 1.35 b2 mappers, loopy's newest mappers (both the main mappers and the mmc5), then the Powermappers, the NWC mapper fix, and intro module bugfix. No Game Genie codes with Powermappers.

Save State Mapper Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2l312es6z3cibp2/SAVESTATE%20MAPPER%20COMBO.rar?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2l312es6z3cibp2/SAVESTATE%20MAPPER%20COMBO.rar?dl=0)
Same as Ultimate, but uses Save State mappers instead of Powermappers. Has Game Genie support for Save State mappers, but only can have 1 save state slot instead of 5, and no in-game menu like with Powermappers.

I'm getting way off topic here so I'll hush about the Powerpak now.  ;)
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 21, 2015, 10:25 AM
Also the mapper for Homebrew World Championships 2012. PowerPak had an updated mapper for the proper timing of 6:21 buried somewhere deep in the PowerPak thread on NintendoAge. DIP switches cannot be modified without updating the mapper.
Yeah, it's included in the "ultimate" mapper packs over there now.

Ultimate Mapper Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vbdj43u2kvu15b/ULTIMATE%20MAPPERS.rar?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vbdj43u2kvu15b/ULTIMATE%20MAPPERS.rar?dl=0)
Includes 1.35 b2 mappers, loopy's newest mappers (both the main mappers and the mmc5), then the Powermappers, the NWC mapper fix, and intro module bugfix. No Game Genie codes with Powermappers.

Save State Mapper Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2l312es6z3cibp2/SAVESTATE%20MAPPER%20COMBO.rar?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2l312es6z3cibp2/SAVESTATE%20MAPPER%20COMBO.rar?dl=0)
Same as Ultimate, but uses Save State mappers instead of Powermappers. Has Game Genie support for Save State mappers, but only can have 1 save state slot instead of 5, and no in-game menu like with Powermappers.

I'm getting way off topic here so I'll hush about the Powerpak now.  ;)
Looks like I have some updating to do. Kudos to whomever put all this stuff in one place! 8)
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: aloram on December 22, 2015, 02:37 AM
I'm interested in doing the expansion audio mod to my NES, so I can use my Everdrive to play Gimmick and hear the extra sound. I plan on using the mod in the link below. I have an NTSC NES, and I only use my Everdrive N8 (no Famicom cartridges, Powerpak, etc.). Can someone who has done this mod please recommend the proper resistor for my setup? I want whatever sounds closest to the correct sound, of course. Thanks.

http://www.retrofixes.com/2014/05/open-hidden-sound-channels-in-nes.html
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 22, 2015, 02:42 AM
I'm interested in doing the expansion audio mod to my NES, so I can use my Everdrive to play Gimmick and hear the extra sound. I plan on using the mod in the link below. I have an NTSC NES, and I only use my Everdrive N8 (no Famicom cartridges, Powerpak, etc.). Can someone who has done this mod please recommend the proper resistor for my setup? I want whatever sounds closest to the correct sound, of course. Thanks.

http://www.retrofixes.com/2014/05/open-hidden-sound-channels-in-nes.html
The recommended resistor value is 47k ohm soldered between pins 3 and 9 of the expansion port.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eXKwbQSJzI0/Ul4p8scW8bI/AAAAAAAABZ8/0TwBmQxy2Gw/s1600/NES+Extra+Sound+Channel001.jpg)
Looking up the resistor color code from the photo above, we see a yellow (4), purple (7) and orange (3) band. This represents 47 followed by three zeros or 47,000 ohms, which is exactly the value originally recommended by Brian Parker of RetroUSB.

I went full custom and used a grounded 10k audio pot for adjustable volume on my NES, but mine is a bit more advanced mod, for system tweakers. For adjustable volume mod like mine, connect one end of the 10k volume pot to ground (pin 2 of the expansion connector) and the cartridge output (pin 9) on the other end. Center pin on the pot goes to the NES mixer input (pin 3). Rotate the pot counter clockwise to decrease the EXP volume (full CCW is effectively muted) and clockwise to increase the EXP volume. Keep the three leads bound tightly together to help minimize noise. I used a 3-pin CPU fan header for quick disconnect and mounted the volume pot with a big red knob above the controller ports on my nintendo. Mine is an audio taper pot and the expansion sound sounds "balanced" at about 2/3 of max volume.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: aloram on December 22, 2015, 03:07 AM
Awesome, thanks. What's the wattage on the resistor?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 22, 2015, 03:10 AM
Awesome, thanks. What's the wattage on the resistor?
Whatever is available at the time. Wattage doesn't matter since you're dealing with such low level signals.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: aloram on December 22, 2015, 03:16 AM
Awesome, thanks. What's the wattage on the resistor?
Whatever is available at the time. Wattage doesn't matter since you're dealing with such low level signals.
So this one looks good?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PACK-47K-OHM-5-Carbon-Film-Resistors-1-4-Watt-FREE-SHIPPING-/191603887651?hash=item2c9c7b4e23:g:6F0AAOSw~ZdVgGGq
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on December 22, 2015, 04:03 AM
Awesome, thanks. What's the wattage on the resistor?
Whatever is available at the time. Wattage doesn't matter since you're dealing with such low level signals.
So this one looks good?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PACK-47K-OHM-5-Carbon-Film-Resistors-1-4-Watt-FREE-SHIPPING-/191603887651?hash=item2c9c7b4e23:g:6F0AAOSw~ZdVgGGq
Those are fine yes.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: jordiway73 on January 22, 2016, 01:09 PM
I tried all 3 versions and the Japan rom and its very quiet compared to the NTSC prototype rom. Correct me if im wrong but shouldn't the Japanese version sound better than the usa version. I just did the 47k mod on my nes and I know its working because before the mod Zelda FDS was missing sounds and after the mod I heard sounds ive never heard before I didn't realize the FDS version of Zelda was so different. The 69 mapper that comes with OS 13 doesn't have the star sound with the japan rom but the modded 69 mapper gives it sound its just really quiet.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: StarDust4Ever on January 22, 2016, 11:35 PM
I tried all 3 versions and the Japan rom and its very quiet compared to the NTSC prototype rom. Correct me if im wrong but shouldn't the Japanese version sound better than the usa version. I just did the 47k mod on my nes and I know its working because before the mod Zelda FDS was missing sounds and after the mod I heard sounds ive never heard before I didn't realize the FDS version of Zelda was so different. The 69 mapper that comes with OS 13 doesn't have the star sound with the japan rom but the modded 69 mapper gives it sound its just really quiet.
Interesting. The audio mod on my NES includes a fully adjustable 10k audio taper pot so I can tweak the volume. Depending on if there's an internal resistance inside the cart, the pot could potentially soften the output. Unlike Powerpak, my repro of Mr Gimmick (J) sounds balanced at full volume level. Powerpak audio kind of sounds loud compared to NES chip so I normally tune the pot to about 2/3 level. Sadly I can't test the Everdrive on my NTSC NES because of incompatabilities with the CopyNES mod. My Everdrive N8 is the Famicom version and it's great on my AV Famicom.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Pixelkaye on September 22, 2016, 10:01 PM
Hi there! Is there any chance of getting the 5B mapper reuploaded by someone? The latest download from necro is unavailable now and I can't find any other download for it for the N8 on Google. :(

Thanks!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: leonquest on September 24, 2016, 12:25 AM
Hi there! Is there any chance of getting the 5B mapper reuploaded by someone? The latest download from necro is unavailable now and I can't find any other download for it for the N8 on Google. :(

Thanks!

The latest N8 OS version should have support for the 5B mapper. But if you really need the Necronom5 version then I can send it to you tonight, as right now I'm at work. PM me and I will send you the link.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: brianvgplayer on September 24, 2016, 12:44 AM
The latest N8 OS version should have support for the 5B mapper. But if you really need the Necronom5 version then I can send it to you tonight, as right now I'm at work. PM me and I will send you the link.

The latest N8 OS version of the 5B mapper doesn't have expansion sound. I tried the latest official mapper and some sounds didn't play, unlike with the custom mapper. I attempted to upload the file here, but it said the space was full, despite the file being small enough.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: MP2E on September 25, 2016, 01:12 AM
The latest N8 OS version should have support for the 5B mapper. But if you really need the Necronom5 version then I can send it to you tonight, as right now I'm at work. PM me and I will send you the link.

The latest N8 OS version of the 5B mapper doesn't have expansion sound. I tried the latest official mapper and some sounds didn't play, unlike with the custom mapper. I attempted to upload the file here, but it said the space was full, despite the file being small enough.
Yeah the attachments limit has been reached, you can still upload it to a free file host like mediafire and leave the link here. There are plenty of other hosts too, just a random suggestion.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: brianvgplayer on September 25, 2016, 06:17 AM
I just uploaded the file to Mediafire. Here is the link (https://www.mediafire.com/?qu2pdsqmem2c1gi).
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: wolfpacleader1986 on September 30, 2016, 09:09 AM
For some reason, I get a black screen when trying to run Gimmick with this mapper. I checked with my stock Everdrive mappers and the game works. But when I use this mapper, it locks up and won't even let me reset.

Using a Famicom and an Everdrive with the latest firmware.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: densy on September 30, 2016, 10:53 AM
I just tried it last night with an NES cart style Everdrive N8 on a retrousb avs system and Gimmick works with the mapper file linked.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: wolfpacleader1986 on September 30, 2016, 06:08 PM
I found what was wrong. Apparently, the mapper for Lagrange Point messes with the Gimmick mapper as it uses its own mapper out.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Brachabre on September 30, 2016, 08:49 PM
Yeah, my understanding is that you can only use either one or the other a time but not both. The VRC7/Sunsoft mappers need to be combined somehow.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: leonquest on September 30, 2016, 09:48 PM
I found what was wrong. Apparently, the mapper for Lagrange Point messes with the Gimmick mapper as it uses its own mapper out.

Both Lagrange point and mr gimmick worked perfect on my AVS using a famicom everdriveN8. Maybe your issue is due to the beta firmware?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: wolfpacleader1986 on October 01, 2016, 12:57 AM
I'm using OS v13
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: thecavalry on October 01, 2016, 02:59 AM
He probably meant AVS firmware... Sounds to me like it could also be the maproute.bin
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Great Hierophant on October 01, 2016, 05:23 PM
Yeah, my understanding is that you can only use either one or the other a time but not both. The VRC7/Sunsoft mappers need to be combined somehow.

I explain how to do that at the bottom of this blog entry : http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2015/01/everdrive-n8-most-worthy-nes-multicart.html
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Brachabre on October 01, 2016, 07:04 PM
Nice thank you!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: leonquest on October 02, 2016, 07:13 PM
He probably meant AVS firmware... Sounds to me like it could also be the maproute.bin

Yes, I meant the AVS firmware. The beta firmwares that are comning out, some have problems with certain games.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: uzumaki on October 11, 2016, 12:32 AM
I found what was wrong. Apparently, the mapper for Lagrange Point messes with the Gimmick mapper as it uses its own mapper out.

Both Lagrange point and mr gimmick worked perfect on my AVS using a famicom everdriveN8. Maybe your issue is due to the beta firmware?

Are you saying Lagrange Point works perfectly for you including expansion audio? I thought this wasn't possible without the Hi Def NES.

Blizzz thanks for posting the comparison video a couple pages back. Looking forward to playing this.

Is the mediafire link above the latest mapper released by him? His last mapper update was from Sep 6 2015 and the file from mediafire was modified on Sep 5. Just curious.

This version has extra channels really quiet, on my 2 AV Famicom systems ; one uses nesrgb amp, the other uses a rebuilt audio circuit to make it identical to original famicom. The previous version sounded very close to recordings and emus.

Ok, I changed the sound generation back to the old method, but still keeping the new options (HI and LO mixing volumes selectable via OS menu).
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: leonquest on October 11, 2016, 01:30 AM

Are you saying Lagrange Point works perfectly for you including expansion audio? I thought this wasn't possible without the Hi Def NES.


No, obviously no expansion audio for Lagrange point, but other than that it works perfectly.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: brianvgplayer on October 11, 2016, 05:12 AM
As far as I know, the mapper I downloaded was the latest, but I'm not completely sure. I do notice a difference between lo and hi with it and it works, though. However, I definitely downloaded it after September 5th and the previous link was on September 3rd. I think the difference in date may be due to a different time zone.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: aloram on October 15, 2016, 01:56 PM
As far as I know, the mapper I downloaded was the latest, but I'm not completely sure. I do notice a difference between lo and hi with it and it works, though. However, I definitely downloaded it after September 5th and the previous link was on September 3rd. I think the difference in date may be due to a different time zone.
Any chance this will be officially incorporated into the OS?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: brianvgplayer on October 16, 2016, 07:39 AM
As far as I know, the mapper I downloaded was the latest, but I'm not completely sure. I do notice a difference between lo and hi with it and it works, though. However, I definitely downloaded it after September 5th and the previous link was on September 3rd. I think the difference in date may be due to a different time zone.
Any chance this will be officially incorporated into the OS?

I'm not the right person to ask, I just uploaded the mapper. Any chance of anyone uploading the September 6th mapper to compare? I think I may have downloaded the previous one by accident.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Erizisto on October 17, 2016, 09:02 PM

Any chance of anyone uploading the September 6th mapper to compare? I think I may have downloaded the previous one by accident.

I compared the file you uploaded to the one I have, which I'm confident was the newest release (version 4), and they are an exact match (based on several various checksums).
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: brianvgplayer on October 17, 2016, 10:23 PM

Any chance of anyone uploading the September 6th mapper to compare? I think I may have downloaded the previous one by accident.

I compared the file you uploaded to the one I have, which I'm confident was the newest release (version 4), and they are an exact match (based on several various checksums).

Thank you.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: aloram on October 18, 2016, 02:52 AM
As far as I know, the mapper I downloaded was the latest, but I'm not completely sure. I do notice a difference between lo and hi with it and it works, though. However, I definitely downloaded it after September 5th and the previous link was on September 3rd. I think the difference in date may be due to a different time zone.
Any chance this will be officially incorporated into the OS?

I'm not the right person to ask, I just uploaded the mapper. Any chance of anyone uploading the September 6th mapper to compare? I think I may have downloaded the previous one by accident.
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to quote you in the reply.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: TubeBar on November 07, 2016, 04:08 PM
Link doesn't work http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=05251361785486878822

Can someone reupload?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: TubeBar on November 07, 2016, 04:09 PM
NM just saw brianvgplayer reupload to https://www.mediafire.com/?qu2pdsqmem2c1gi
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: brianvgplayer on November 07, 2016, 07:03 PM
Too bad there weren't any more updates before it went down. The latest one sounds great on AV Famicom, but it's slightly too quiet on defaults on the AVS. It's probably too quiet on the original Famicom, as well.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: RiBB|Lion on March 09, 2017, 02:02 AM
I'm having some trouble with this mapper on my AV Famicom. Most of the expansion sounds don't sound right. They sound a little bit like the static you hear when you turn on a old CRT TV (but not as loud). The sounds for the star work fine, though. I've seen videos in YouTube of people using the same mapper, and I don't hear the static sounds on their videos. Perhaps it has something to do with my AV Famicom?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: darksakul on March 19, 2017, 05:31 AM
Sometimes it's the AC adapter causing the noise.
I had a similar problem with my SNES until I switched Power Supplies.

That Cheap 3-in-1 AC adapter that supports NES, SNES and Genesis you see on eBay is an example of a bad adapter as it causes alot of noise.

Another issue is the AV cables you could be using (analog formats only).
The RF switch is a source of alot of noise and interference, switching to composite video reduce this to a degree, same with a RGB cable.
The Quality of cable also effects this as well, such as a shielded cable outperforms a cheap thin cable.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: RiBB|Lion on March 25, 2017, 12:45 AM
I actually​ do use one of those 3-in-1 adapters. I had no idea they would affect the sound of the Famicom. Would it be safe to use a Genesis Model 1 power adapter on an AV Famicom? I have no official AC adapter for it.

As for the video cables, I use the standard composite cords usually bundled with every SNES, N64, and GameCube. I don't really like RF.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: leonquest on March 25, 2017, 01:03 AM
I actually​ do use one of those 3-in-1 adapters. I had no idea they would affect the sound of the Famicom. Would it be safe to use a Genesis Model 1 power adapter on an AV Famicom? I have no official AC adapter for it.

As for the video cables, I use the standard composite cords usually bundled with every SNES, N64, and GameCube. I don't really like RF.

Yes it would be, its what I always used before selling my AV famicom in favor of the AVS.

You might also want to check this forum out:
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=6933.0
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: sdqfsdf on April 14, 2017, 07:39 PM
Too bad there weren't any more updates before it went down. The latest one sounds great on AV Famicom, but it's slightly too quiet on defaults on the AVS. It's probably too quiet on the original Famicom, as well.

Do you have any idea if there is a better volume/mix update that is ever going to happen?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: brianvgplayer on April 15, 2017, 11:37 PM
Do you have any idea if there is a better volume/mix update that is ever going to happen?

I'm not the right person to ask. The author of the mapper hasn't posted in ages.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: leonquest on April 18, 2017, 06:39 PM
Do you have any idea if there is a better volume/mix update that is ever going to happen?

I'm not the right person to ask. The author of the mapper hasn't posted in ages.

I googled the author's screen name since he seems to use the same one everywhere, but he's nowhere to be found. I hope he's alive, I wish him well, he gave an awesome contribution to the everdrive community.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Great Hierophant on July 25, 2017, 02:10 AM
I am finding that this mapper is no longer working for me as of OS v16.  It worked well previously with v13-15, but as of OS v16 loading any Mapper 69 game gets you a black screen that is fixable only by power cycling the console.  The 069.RBF that comes with OS v16 works except for Gimmick's audio. 

Update : A reformat of my SD card fixed the problem.  However, I found that you must make sure that the files in the EDFC and MAPS folders are properly sorted with a program like DriveSort, otherwise the ED N8 may hang at the OS Init screen.  I'm not sure if this is necessary if the ED N8's file sorting function is turned on.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: hvc001 on August 06, 2017, 09:44 AM
Does anyone have a download link for this? The old tinyupload links don't work anymore. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: infinest on August 06, 2017, 12:36 PM
Does anyone have a download link for this? The old tinyupload links don't work anymore. Thanks in advance.
http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/WjGfqTMD/file.html
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: hvc001 on August 07, 2017, 02:11 AM
http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/WjGfqTMD/file.html
Thank you!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Necronomfive on August 07, 2017, 11:37 PM
Hi,

since krikzz received the source code for my Sunsoft 5B mapper not so long time ago, I assume that the next official OS update will include it.

This will hopefully end all the confusion surrounding this mapper.

BR,

Necronomfive
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: WolfMerrik on September 30, 2017, 12:12 AM
Hey everyone,

I am very new to the Everdrive N8, so Gimmick! has been a game I have been forced to play via emulator for a while. I am super happy with the way the mapper works, but I am not getting SFX. Is this normal?

This is the first time I have ever installed a mapper before, do I just need to overwrite the file? or do I need to update something else?

Thanks in advance, and I am loving the Everdrive N8 a lot!

Cheers
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Great Hierophant on September 30, 2017, 04:07 AM
Hey everyone,

I am very new to the Everdrive N8, so Gimmick! has been a game I have been forced to play via emulator for a while. I am super happy with the way the mapper works, but I am not getting SFX. Is this normal?

This is the first time I have ever installed a mapper before, do I just need to overwrite the file? or do I need to update something else?

Thanks in advance, and I am loving the Everdrive N8 a lot!

Cheers

If you are using a NES and do not have it modded for expansion audio, you won't hear the star sound effects.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: WolfMerrik on October 01, 2017, 03:40 PM
That makes a lot of sense, and kind of what I later assumed to be the case.
But a guy can dream =)

Thanks a lot for the response.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: WolfMerrik on October 04, 2017, 05:42 AM
What type of modification would I have to do to my NES to make this work?

something like this : http://www.retrofixes.com/2014/05/open-hidden-sound-channels-in-nes.html

Also, would using a Famicom allow for these channels to work? or is it an additional chip I would need to add.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Sarge on October 04, 2017, 06:31 AM
Yes to both.  I did that mod with a 47K resistor, if memory serves.

The Famicom already has that bit connected in, so if you have access to one, it'll work with no modifications.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: WolfMerrik on October 04, 2017, 07:43 PM
Thanks a lot, Sarge!
I have been collecting famicom games for a while but using a honeybee (equivalent at least)... Its time I got a famicom anyway....
In the meantime, I do have a soldering iron, so making that modification should not be too hard.

Thanks so much for the feedback, especially regarding which resistor to use - the article was fairly vague on that site.

I appreciate it very much.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: rotmgNPE on October 14, 2017, 08:43 AM
I'm unable to hear any expansion audio even though I'm using an A/V famicom. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Koh1Fds on October 19, 2017, 07:16 PM
I'm unable to hear any expansion audio even though I'm using an A/V famicom. Any ideas?
Do you replaced 069.RBF with custom one?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: rotmgNPE on November 23, 2017, 01:07 AM
Yeah I have and to no luck.

Edit: I'm getting it to work with gimmick using an earlier version of the OS. No luck with castlevania III fc yet though.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: rotmgNPE on November 23, 2017, 03:29 AM
Could someone post the new version of this mapper? The 5B in the one which infinest posted sounds weak.

Compare this: https://youtu.be/o43tYwosk_o?t=1m38s (weak)
to this: https://youtu.be/vve-jpZhi4g?t=3m45s (normal)

Although I'm not 100% sure if this difference in sound quality is the mapper's fault, but that's what I assume since the other sound channels sound fine.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: sqwirral on November 23, 2017, 02:23 PM
Could someone post the new version of this mapper? The 5B in the one which infinest posted sounds weak.

Compare this: https://youtu.be/o43tYwosk_o?t=1m38s (weak)
to this: https://youtu.be/vve-jpZhi4g?t=3m45s (normal)

Although I'm not 100% sure if this difference in sound quality is the mapper's fault, but that's what I assume since the other sound channels sound fine.
It won't be possible to recreate it 100%. The author has done a fantastic job as it is.
As he says in this thread: "Sunsoft 5B has a real analogue DAC, while the FPGA is feeding a digital I/O pin with a massively oversampled (50MHz sampling rate) and dithered waveform of the audio waveform signal."
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: blizzz on November 23, 2017, 02:31 PM
Could someone post the new version of this mapper? The 5B in the one which infinest posted sounds weak.

Compare this: https://youtu.be/o43tYwosk_o?t=1m38s (weak)
to this: https://youtu.be/vve-jpZhi4g?t=3m45s (normal)

I've used the same version infinest posted in that video. It's running on an older version of the OS though. I remember that I didn't update because the sound balance got worse with a new OS version on my unmodded AV Famicom.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: rotmgNPE on November 24, 2017, 01:21 AM
Could someone post the new version of this mapper? The 5B in the one which infinest posted sounds weak.

Compare this: https://youtu.be/o43tYwosk_o?t=1m38s (weak)
to this: https://youtu.be/vve-jpZhi4g?t=3m45s (normal)

Although I'm not 100% sure if this difference in sound quality is the mapper's fault, but that's what I assume since the other sound channels sound fine.
It won't be possible to recreate it 100%. The author has done a fantastic job as it is.
As he says in this thread: "Sunsoft 5B has a real analogue DAC, while the FPGA is feeding a digital I/O pin with a massively oversampled (50MHz sampling rate) and dithered waveform of the audio waveform signal."

That wasn't my point. He did do a fantastic job (as shown in blizzz's comparison). I was just wondering why blizzz's everdrive n8 sounded better than mine.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: rotmgNPE on November 24, 2017, 01:27 AM
Could someone post the new version of this mapper? The 5B in the one which infinest posted sounds weak.

Compare this: https://youtu.be/o43tYwosk_o?t=1m38s (weak)
to this: https://youtu.be/vve-jpZhi4g?t=3m45s (normal)

I've used the same version infinest posted in that video. It's running on an older version of the OS though. I remember that I didn't update because the sound balance got worse with a new OS version on my unmodded AV Famicom.

I've tried all the way through version 10-16 of the OS. Did you use a version earlier than that which isn't listed in krikzz's OS downloads?
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: blizzz on November 24, 2017, 02:01 AM
I'm pretty sure that I used OS version 13. At least that's what's on my SD card right now and I haven't touched the OS in years.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: rotmgNPE on November 24, 2017, 12:35 PM
yea . . . that's the version of the OS which I was using in the video that I posted.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: karter74 on February 23, 2018, 02:26 AM
Wanted to post my findings in hopes of helping others with this issue.

I found that the low audio volume has to do with the ROM itself (why this is, I can't explain).  Using the original Japanese rom, regardless of the mapper I tried, always had the low audio.  This was also independent of the OS version as well.

What I did find is that the patched US rom worked flawlessly after trying the mapper posted in this thread.  In other words, if your audio is low, try a different ROM.  I doubt I can link directly to the working ROM, but it shouldn't be hard to find.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 17, 2018, 11:54 AM
I can't get this to work either.  Tried multiple version of the OS.  Mr. Gimmick lacks the 5B audio and Return of the Joker lacks the 5B audio and freezes on the first stage.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: James-F on March 17, 2018, 12:54 PM
Works perfectly fine here.
5B audio is clearly audible in Gimmick!.
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 18, 2018, 12:53 AM
Ok I'm dumb.  I thought the PAL Mr Gimmick has the 5B audio, but apparently it's only the Japanese one.  And Batman wasn't frozen, it just doesn't work right with my arcade stick(PS360+).  And it isn't supposed to have extra audio at all.

Thanks for the awesome mapper!
Title: Re: Gimmick / Sunsoft 5B Audio?
Post by: brianvgplayer on March 18, 2018, 03:56 AM
No official US or EU game has extra audio since they weren't wired for it. While it sounded slightly low on the AVS (which is adjustable), the 5B audio in the JP Gimmick! definitely plays for me, as well.