Author Topic: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”  (Read 4072 times)

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Offline mancyrix

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 :'(i have my Sd2snes for years,and i update firmware time by time til 1.8.0 .

however ,since i updated to 1.8.0, each time it boot and saying is “flash check error (clone?)” such message.
but still boot sucess and load games normal, can play fx games.

I suspect my card is somehow like a clone/chinese clone.

I have tried upgrade to 1.9.0, but it have no any result and still boot with same message “flash check error (clone?)” , and info show is still 1.8.0 firmware.

I have another sd2snes with is able to upgrade with same sd card to 1.9.0.

I want to ask, if there is any way to force upgrade/ downgrade the firmware to either 1.9.0 or 1.7 something?
now my sd2snes is stucked at 1.8.0 with that “checksum error (clone?)” message each time and I cannot change firmware to any older and newer one……

can anyone help, thanks
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 09:02 AM by mancyrix »

Offline dreimer

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2018, 05:42 PM »
Nope, no help for clones. Especially not in the forum of a official reseller/partner of the sd2snes maker. As you just witnessed your card was detected as cheap clone with low quality components. Nothing to change that fact, it is what it is. You're lucky your card still lives and now just does not up-/downgrade anymore after the usage period it already passed.

Offline TomKeller

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2018, 02:28 AM »
There's something i don't get...

The PCB design and BOM of the SD2SNES Rev. F is open source and freely available on the GitHub of ikari_01:

https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes/tree/develop/pcb/kicad/RevF

I recently saw a community project on a retro forum, where a user started to assemble a couple of SD2SNES for other forum members using those GitHub files. The project will be done in the near future. So... will all those forum members get the "flash check error (clone?)" message with their DIY SD2SNES carts too!?

Offline mancyrix

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2018, 07:19 PM »
yes, you know, honestly, i have bought my first sd2snes in some chinese site, but at that time i dun even know how "official" or not these things are, and I am sure not knowing it is a clone or not.

And one important thing that trigger my first purchase at that time is, it stated as open source and github files opened.
So those seller or even you say doing " clone" sellers, they saying all are the same.

And you know, actually, many of these are still seller newer versions that is able to upgrade.
My first card was a e1 board, and it sold from 0.1.6 firmware, I have always able to upgrade from 0.1.7a- e ... all able to run and never having these sudden messages saying "clone".  Also, I can always switch back to older firmware free to go.

But since i updated to 1.8.0.  I was meeting this situation and no able to switch older firmware or higher.
 
I not to argue what is official or not, as I am just a victim honestly , if i am being convinced by those "unofficial" "clone" seller. 
So what I am asking is, shall I be allowed to switch back to lower firmware, or upgrade further.

You know, I also later bought a "official" one from UK and it is work flawlessly.  I am a real supporter of sd2snes as well.
I just , wish to seek for help or, as previous post reply for, when anyone using open source to build the board, it means a clone??

and base on what judgement shall it be locked to this situation (not able to upgrade/downgrade). 

I wish to have a humble answer and more fair.

Anyway, thanks for all~

Offline dreimer

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2018, 01:51 PM »
If the carts would be the same, there would be no way to detect em. Chinese carts are cheap because of a reason. Crap components and these can be detected. Too slow replies to RAM access for example can be useful for detecting AND for trouble on some special chips. You are free to build your own, yes all is open, BUT stay on the specs when doing so!

I have no clue if this is a lock or a hardware fault on your side, but even if it is a lock, I support the idea. Dozens of ppl come in here and lament about their dead sd2snes and what is revealed way too often? Crap clone! That way you have a nice filter to help ppl who bought the support with their price and concentrate on these instead of helping to fix a neverending plague of lowest quality hardware claiming to be a sd2snes.

Offline TomKeller

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2018, 04:15 PM »
Chinese carts are cheap because of a reason. Crap components and these can be detected. Too slow replies to RAM access for example can be useful for detecting AND for trouble on some special chips. You are free to build your own, yes all is open, BUT stay on the specs when doing so!
It still makes no sense. Regarding the cheaper Chinese SD2SNES: if i remember correctly, ikari_01 himself said something about some parts with slightly different values than recommended in the BOM (for example some resistors and resistor arrays) - but he described them as 'uncritical'.
Afaik most of the problems with those Chinese 'cheapo-SD2SNES' stem from bad solder jobs, where they used far too less (or even close to none) solder paste in the manufacturing process - just to keep the costs as low as possible. This could result in something like the secondary RAM not working (which would go unnoticed in the past... until the GSU1 core came out) or even the SD2SNES not booting up at all. But bad solder joints can happen to somebody building his own SD2SNES manually too.

And even if there are crappy components: some parts reached their eol and are only available via Chinese sellers over eBay or on Alibaba. So you have no choice but to buy those remainders if you want to stick to the specs...


I have no clue if this is a lock or a hardware fault on your side, but even if it is a lock, I support the idea.
I do support the idea in general... but in this case i can't. Because in this one it's not as simple as with the Chinese Everdrive clones. With those i was all for the lock/brick of the clones, since it violated the intellectual property of krikzz by plagiarizing a product he created and kept close source.

Ikari_01 on the other hand gave his idea to the public, by making his product open source. That's why it's strange talking about 'Chinese SD2SNES clones'. There was no reverse engineering involved and no other attempt in creating a 'close-as-possible-to-the-original' hardware design. It IS the original hardware design... just with far less build quality ;) .

So while i'm strongly in favor of NOT giving any technical support to buyers of a Chinese SD2SNES in here (because buyers of the 'krikzz-produced' SD2SNES are paying more money... simply for better build quality and technical support), i'm not in favor of punishing them baseless either.

In the end simply ask yourself this (to give another kind of 'close at home' example out of the retro community):
If someone would have the possibility to cheaply build one thousand OSSC and he would sell these for 25% less then what they are sold on VGP - would it make sense to call them 'clone OSSCs'? If they were less good, people would call them 'less good', 'crappy' oder 'cheap'... but i'm pretty sure, they would call them 'clones' ;) .

Offline mancyrix

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thanks all for the replies,

honestly, i do think we all know there are different level of boards in these open source references.
And we all know some low quality components are used in these boards.

I again, give a best support to "official sellers" after realised.too.

I think Tom is well understand the argue points, and remorse our situation for this situation being locked firmware all at a sudden.

You know, I tell you, in this 1st board i Got, it is really all good running, and all success upgrade firmware til 1.8.
And then it say it is a clone(with a question mark as well in the shown message).   
Before, I have even used the diagnose tools and all test are 100% correct at that time.
(I have no mood to retest it as it is not easy, also I doubt there will be a sudden change test results, just to show some late tackle on the so called clones detection).

I appreciate to have an official answer for , who and what reason and what criteria to have a test and even it says in doubt for if mine is a "Clone"?...then without any consent, to locked the firmware at 1.8 and never able to downgrade and upgrade.

I can guess, possibly some components are being identified as "Not fully matching the ideal" , maybe from some latest reviews from ikari?
and actually, if it allow me upgrade from 0.16 to 0.17 to 1.8....then why now not allow upgrade ,even downgrading not allow?

I can accept a concrete answer , and if possible an alternative way to relax the limitation. It can be something like a warning but not to totally stop upgrade/downgrade.

Honestly, we are victims, we not fully clever to distinguish at first for a famous sd2snes card seller supposed to be located.  But we do not believe we are deserved to be punished for being locked at all.

thanks and I still hoping some people can help or providing some humble advise on the actual detection mechanism since 1.8.


Offline josete2k

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Well, I have a "CLONE" running 1.9.0 without any problem. Testing S-DD1 from magno and 100% working too.


So, I doubt that there is a "clone detector" in 1.8.0 and upwards.

Offline TomKeller

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If you consider the lots and lots of those Chinese "clones" in use, there were surprisingly few posts about this 'flash check error' message. And since it only seems to affect people which had their SD2SNES for quite a while, it may only have an effect on some specific(?) or older revisions of the board (maybe E2)!? I dunno... but it's strange for sure.

It may be possible to get rid of the message (and downgrade to an older firmware) by reflashing the bootloader. But to do so you need to connect an appropriate programmer for the Xilinx Spartan FPGA to the JTAG connector of the board (as far as i know). All in all: not a simple thing to do...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 07:00 PM by TomKeller »

Offline Terminator2k2

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Well, I have a "CLONE" running 1.9.0 without any problem. Testing S-DD1 from magno and 100% working too.


So, I doubt that there is a "clone detector" in 1.8.0 and upwards.

you dont have official firmware either, ikari doesnt upload his clone detection firmware to github.

if i was ikari i would of just given sd2snes the chop and build some detection into sd3snes

Offline josete2k

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2019, 12:44 PM »
if i was ikari i would of just given sd2snes the chop and build some detection into sd3snes

Why?

And yes, I've tested all official firmwares too...

[EARTHBOUND MODE] No problem here! [/EARTHBOUND MODE]

Offline Terminator2k2

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2019, 12:58 PM »
why?

because ikari gets nothing from people buying clones, and only gets something through people buying via official channels....

when sd3snes launches, im sure it wont be so open as it is now.

Offline dreimer

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2019, 03:21 PM »
Do you really think he gets a worth to mention amount of money right now? I think he does not care about money here, more about ppl going on his nerves with features not working on their cheap "sd2snes"-ripoff (See? Didn't say clone that time^^) and DEMAND it to be fixed for them via all social media available. True story that is! If he really added some clone lock to specific behavior known to cause problems, he is 100% right in doing that IMO. If ppl complain about this message he can be 100% sure to not have to give a f*ck ^^ Luckily, if that's the case, ikari is far more friendly that I am, I would zero out the whole bootloader and thus brick the wannabe sd2snes.

Offline TomKeller

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2019, 07:00 PM »
when sd3snes launches, im sure it wont be so open as it is now.
Which is fine with me. But if you make something open source, then stay true to your decision and make the simple argument: if you want the best version of my product with all the technical support -> buy the version manufactured by my business partner. Otherwise: no support from me since you get what you pay for.


I think he does not care about money here, more about ppl going on his nerves with features not working on their cheap "sd2snes"-ripoff (See? Didn't say clone that time^^) and DEMAND it to be fixed for them via all social media available.
First of all: thanks for calling it 'ripoff' now - sounds WAY less bad than 'clone' ;-p .

Let me be totally honest for one second: i think ikari_01 did an amazing job in developing the SD2SNES and he deserves every penny he made out if it via the official built. That's why i supported him too, by buying my SD2SNES from an official seller.
And i don't believe he was thinking about the money he could make either, since he made his project open source. Maybe partly because he was hoping for others to jump in and help in developing and perfecting the enhancement chip cores.

That being said: nobody but Maximilian knows for sure if he regrets not making it closed source in the first place. And: only he does know, if the constant demanding was bugging him. But since some people can be a real pain in the a**, maybe that was the case. But it never was and still isn't his job to fulfill those demands since those people bought a finished product for which the seller(!) has to provide technical support. And if the seller can't or won't do that (which may be the case for most - if not all - of the Chinese sellers) you are screwed as a buyer. Simple as that. But implementing a 'clone check' sends the wrong message... but i'm getting ahead of myself.


If he really added some clone lock to specific behavior known to cause problems, he is 100% right in doing that IMO. If ppl complain about this message he can be 100% sure to not have to give a f*ck ^^ Luckily, if that's the case, ikari is far more friendly that I am, I would zero out the whole bootloader and thus brick the wannabe sd2snes.
He may have the right to do it (if he did it at all) - but (as i said): it sends a very wrong message to the open source community IMHO.
Think about it in a grander scale: there may be hundreds of open source FPGA hardware projects out there. What if EVERY SINGLE inital developer of those projects starts to implement a lock into his precompiled firmware, which looks for a built not manufactured by his preferred or recommended partner/seller??? Don't you think it wouldn't be fair? It's like saying:

"Here... i developed this. For you. For the public. For everyone to enjoy... and to develop it any further. For... whoooops - changed my mind. It's just for the 'elite' buyers now (or for people smart enough to build their own firmware without any lock). Nevermind. No hard feelings."

Or simply think about it that way:
For such projects like the SD2SNES most of the users seem to demand more and better features again and again. So: what about the smart folks out there, who are skilled enough to be very helpful in the further development of the software of such an open source project... but simply can't afford to buy the open source hardware from an official partner of the developer? To lock them out seems kind of wrong to me as well as counterproductive. It's open source! So what's the point in making the plans of your brainchild publicly available and everything recreatable, if you exclude parts of the public and highly restrict the ability to recreate it???

And that's why i don't get people saying things like "I would punish those 'clone' buyers even more". Cause it always sounds to me like "I paid a LOT of money for this thing - so i'm part of a small and elite group of people owning this. People who bought it cheap are NOT part of this group. I'm better than those people" - which is justified to think about closed source hardware and buyers of clones of such hardware. But for open source hardware it seems kind of against the open source thinking and spirit.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:39 PM by TomKeller »

Offline josete2k

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Re: Sd2snes firmware update issue / “flash check error (clone?)”
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2019, 07:04 PM »
Well, ikari fixed many of the issues that were in my "ripoff" sd2snes... and I'm sure that many of them have been used for the s-dd1 support accuracy for ALL cards...

So that ripoff carts helped to have a better s-dd1 support.