Author Topic: Top 10 Japan N64 Titles requesting to be translated  (Read 67696 times)

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Offline ozidual

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Re: Top 10 Japan N64 Titles requesting to be translated
« Reply #240 on: December 13, 2018, 07:01 PM »
Thanks darkshockbro.  Here's where I hit the translation problem.

Back when I translated Latin in college, I got to the level where I knew most of the standard stuff, and the next step was translating Augustan Age texts.  The first pass through the text, I'd pick out words that were unfamiliar (quite a few).  Next step was looking up all the possible meanings of those words and how they were declined.  Finally, you'd put the words together in a way that made sense.  If you had time, you'd make a few variations on each sentence that made sense and try to figure out which was best.  Finally, you'd put everything together and do a last pass of the text to make sure it looked right.  It took hours to translate a single paragraph.

Now, there was a dictionary program that was pretty good at the time.  No digging through the physical dictionary, just straight up pull it out of this program.  The problem is that when I translated with a real dictionary, I would get it wrong occasionally, but for the most part it was right.  When I used the dictionary program, it was closer to 50/50.  Even if it got close to being correct, there was still the chance that something important was missed.  Maybe not important for that paragraph or even that chapter, but important.

When I'm working on a game these days, here's how I view the translation options out there:

1. Translation programs - horrible.  You can get a feel for the game, but items, names, events, you name it will be all over the place, and you're very likely missing a lot.  These are good for playing through on your own if you don't care about getting much depth from the game.  With a lot of work they can be made OK, and some games don't need much.
2. Dictionary programs - better, but we're usually talking dictionary without knowledge of grammar, and grammar is HUGE in Japanese.  Still, with patience and time, this can be a decent option to get an OK to almost good translation.
3. Dictionary programs + learning Japanese - much better (depending on the effort put in to learn Japanese so far).  Stuff will get missed, but this is probably the best that most fan translation games will get.
4. Actual translator - Awesome!  Good luck finding one willing to work for free.  I really don't blame them.  This is their livelihood, and many are contractors that sometimes have to fight to get paid a decent wage in the first place.

Maybe I'm too picky.  Maybe none of the translation hacks I've done will amount to anything.  Still, I hold out hope.  I do release everything I feel I can for the games I work on.  Someone who knows their way around a rom hack should be able to take my work with Doshin or Sim City and make something of it some day if I'm not able to find a good enough translator.  I did try a straight machine translation once for Shiren 64. Mind you there were other issues with it, and I did no editing of the machine translation.  It was unplayable.  I couldn't even get an idea of what was happening :)  It did help with some troubleshooting though.

This doesn't mean that you should stop what you're doing.  It takes a lot of effort and learning to do a decent machine translation and there are definitely people/games that this works for.  With each translation, you'll get a better feel for the language too.

EDIT: The above is an oversimplification of the translation options out there.  It doesn't take into account knowledge of the game, interest in translating it, exhaustion, revisions, etc. etc.  Just compare Mother 3 fan translation to the official Ys VIII translation to the original Final Fantasy V fan translation.  Passion + translating experience = awesome.  Official doesn't mean great.  Sometimes an OK translation is good enough for most people, but doesn't really stay true to expectations.  Then look at the thousands of translations of Latin texts, all that inherently have their own spin on the text mostly because all languages are very different.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 07:18 PM by ozidual »
Projects: Zelda OoT GCtoN64, Doshin the Giant, SSSV, Sim City 64, Getter Love, Shiren
Flash Carts: EverDrive64 2.5, EverDrive N8, SD2SNES

Offline darkshockbro

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Re: Top 10 Japan N64 Titles requesting to be translated
« Reply #241 on: December 20, 2018, 06:00 AM »
Thanks darkshockbro.  Here's where I hit the translation problem.

Back when I translated Latin in college, I got to the level where I knew most of the standard stuff, and the next step was translating Augustan Age texts.  The first pass through the text, I'd pick out words that were unfamiliar (quite a few).  Next step was looking up all the possible meanings of those words and how they were declined.  Finally, you'd put the words together in a way that made sense.  If you had time, you'd make a few variations on each sentence that made sense and try to figure out which was best.  Finally, you'd put everything together and do a last pass of the text to make sure it looked right.  It took hours to translate a single paragraph.

Now, there was a dictionary program that was pretty good at the time.  No digging through the physical dictionary, just straight up pull it out of this program.  The problem is that when I translated with a real dictionary, I would get it wrong occasionally, but for the most part it was right.  When I used the dictionary program, it was closer to 50/50.  Even if it got close to being correct, there was still the chance that something important was missed.  Maybe not important for that paragraph or even that chapter, but important.

When I'm working on a game these days, here's how I view the translation options out there:

1. Translation programs - horrible.  You can get a feel for the game, but items, names, events, you name it will be all over the place, and you're very likely missing a lot.  These are good for playing through on your own if you don't care about getting much depth from the game.  With a lot of work they can be made OK, and some games don't need much.
2. Dictionary programs - better, but we're usually talking dictionary without knowledge of grammar, and grammar is HUGE in Japanese.  Still, with patience and time, this can be a decent option to get an OK to almost good translation.
3. Dictionary programs + learning Japanese - much better (depending on the effort put in to learn Japanese so far).  Stuff will get missed, but this is probably the best that most fan translation games will get.
4. Actual translator - Awesome!  Good luck finding one willing to work for free.  I really don't blame them.  This is their livelihood, and many are contractors that sometimes have to fight to get paid a decent wage in the first place.

Maybe I'm too picky.  Maybe none of the translation hacks I've done will amount to anything.  Still, I hold out hope.  I do release everything I feel I can for the games I work on.  Someone who knows their way around a rom hack should be able to take my work with Doshin or Sim City and make something of it some day if I'm not able to find a good enough translator.  I did try a straight machine translation once for Shiren 64. Mind you there were other issues with it, and I did no editing of the machine translation.  It was unplayable.  I couldn't even get an idea of what was happening :)  It did help with some troubleshooting though.

This doesn't mean that you should stop what you're doing.  It takes a lot of effort and learning to do a decent machine translation and there are definitely people/games that this works for.  With each translation, you'll get a better feel for the language too.

EDIT: The above is an oversimplification of the translation options out there.  It doesn't take into account knowledge of the game, interest in translating it, exhaustion, revisions, etc. etc.  Just compare Mother 3 fan translation to the official Ys VIII translation to the original Final Fantasy V fan translation.  Passion + translating experience = awesome.  Official doesn't mean great.  Sometimes an OK translation is good enough for most people, but doesn't really stay true to expectations.  Then look at the thousands of translations of Latin texts, all that inherently have their own spin on the text mostly because all languages are very different.
Wow, that was a much more elaborate and helpful response than I had anticipated. I truly appreciate it. I'll make sure to take your words into consideration whenever I get the time / motivation to start up this hobby. Best of luck with your own translation projects.  :)

Offline DoritosAreVegan

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Re: Top 10 Japan N64 Titles requesting to be translated
« Reply #242 on: May 15, 2019, 08:29 AM »
I would like to add (if it already hasn't) Shin Nippon Pro Wrestling - Toukon Road - Brave Spirits to the queue. There is a FAQ on it (for menus and wrestler names) and it features a simpler (text-wise) campaign mode than it's successor.

Offline Galron

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Re: Top 10 Japan N64 Titles requesting to be translated
« Reply #243 on: May 15, 2019, 03:48 PM »
As an RPG collector, I'd love to see
Zoor: Maj┼ź Tsukai Densetsu and Onegai Monsters get translations.

Offline ZoeSoft

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Re: Top 10 Japan N64 Titles requesting to be translated
« Reply #244 on: January 11, 2020, 01:27 AM »
I'm still crossing my fingers for someone to translate Super Mario 64 Shindou.
It's just a shame that there's a superior version of the classic out there that is untranslated.
Problem is that most Mario 64 tools only work for the USA version, so I know it's not easy.

Offline ozidual

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Re: Top 10 Japan N64 Titles requesting to be translated
« Reply #245 on: January 11, 2020, 02:28 AM »
They decompiled Mario 64, and I figured that decompiling the other versions would be next, or at least adding in the rumble feature.  I'm not sure why it isn't out there yet.  Maybe the different versions are vastly different.
Projects: Zelda OoT GCtoN64, Doshin the Giant, SSSV, Sim City 64, Getter Love, Shiren
Flash Carts: EverDrive64 2.5, EverDrive N8, SD2SNES

Offline richieboy

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Re: Top 10 Japan N64 Titles requesting to be translated
« Reply #246 on: January 11, 2020, 06:06 AM »
I would love to see Mario 64 Shindou translated. I've been holding back on playing Mario 64 because I want to play it in english with rumble support. Rumble adds a whole other dimension to the gameplay.