Author Topic: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread  (Read 45317 times)

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Offline Majestic_Lizard

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Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« on: February 27, 2013, 05:11 AM »


SkinnV Compatibility Thread (with link to current table)

Some examples of mappers (source: Retrozone):
#    DESCRIPTION                    GAMES
1    Nintendo MMC1 Chipset    1942, Bomberman II, Mega Man II ...
2    ROM (PRG) Switch             Konami games like CastleVania and Stinger
3    VROM (CHR) Switch             Twin Bee, Q*Bert, and many japanese games.
4    Nintendo MMC3 Chipset    Super Mario Bros 2 & 3 (Most used mapper)
5    Nintendo MMC5 Chipset    CastleVania III: Dracula's Curse
7    32kb ROM (PRG) Switch    Wizards & Warriors, Marble Madness, etc.
9    Nintendo MMC2 Chipset    Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, and Punch-Out!!
10    Nintendo MMC4 Chipset    Japanese Punch-Out!!, and japanese games.
11    Color Dreams Chipset    Crystal Mines, Tagin' Dragon, Babyboom, etc.

No-Intro NES Header Fix

Based on the information above, you should get a rough idea of potential compatibility.

Please take into consideration that this thread is not intended to criticize the Everdrive product. The purpose of the thread is discuss games with supported mappers that are not working. Hopefully, once we have a list of games on the supported mapper list that are still not working properly, patterns will become obvious to the more advanced users, enabling for improved compatibility in the future.

Obviously, technically advanced users are not obligated to fix non-working games, although it is appreciated if they do. Again, the main purpose of this thread is to make existing problems known. This will save time for trouble shooting purposes and will stop people from thinking that they have bad rom dumps, when a specific game is simply not fully compatible yet.

SkinnyV's list (above) shows which games have supported mappers; it does not state that those games actually work (though one would expect they usually will).



Here is an incomplete list of games that should be supported, but due to whatever idiosyncrasy in the way the code is implemented, they don't work properly:
* Commando (English and Japanese versions): iNES mapper 2 --->Game crashes shortly after starting.-->Reported to work on some consoles and not others.
* Ai Sensei no Oshiete - Watashi no Hoshi - reported not working by other users


Hack available for clone consoles:
* Rad Racer 2: iNES mapper #4 (MMC3B) --->unique implementation distinguishing it from other MMC3B titles (there is a hack available that makes this work (on clones)!!)


Note: List above assumes nesos-s2m3 & n8-bios-v4
Note: There are games that are not on the supported mapper list. They will not be discussed here.

Fixed (or discovered working):
No-Intro NES Header Fix
Gauntlet (Tengen) iNES mapper 206 (according to SkinnyV) - Fixed in s2m4. Will not play in clone consoles.
Rad Racer 2: iNES mapper #4 (MMC3B) ---> Fixed in s2m4. Will not play in clone consoles (patched version I find will play in clones).
Abadox: iNES mapper #1 (MMC1B2) ---> This game DOES work, you just need to enable the reset.
Karnov : iNES mapper #206 (Namcot 109)---> Game starts, then the graphics are corrupt // SkinnyV fixed it
Super Xevious: iNES mapper #206 (Namcot 109)---> Game starts, then the graphics are corrupt // SkinnyV fixed it
Babel no Tou (Japan)   (Incorrect mapper, mapper #4 instead of #206)
Family Jockey (Japan)   (Incorrect mapper, mapper #4 instead of #206)
Family Mahjong (Japan)   (Incorrect mapper, mapper #4 instead of #206)
Family Pinball (Japan)   (Incorrect mapper, mapper #4 instead of #206)
Side Pocket (Japan)   (Incorrect mapper, mapper #4 instead of #206)
Super Chinese (Japan)   (Incorrect mapper, mapper #4 instead of #206)
Super Xevious - Gump no Nazo (Japan)   (Incorrect mapper, mapper #4 instead of #206)
Valkyrie no Bouken - Toki no Kagi Densetsu (Japan)   (Incorrect mapper, mapper #4 instead of #206)


Related threads:
http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=393.0
http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=335.0
No-Intro NES Header Fix

Tools (hex editors, etc)
NES header repair discussion
ines-header-fixer/
Nintendulator

Thanks to SkinnyV, Jimmy, and other contributors, for their guidance.



« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 08:33 PM by Majestic_Lizard »

Offline SkinnyV

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Re: Games Not Working Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 05:31 AM »
The list was compiled using Krikzz mapper support info. If Krikzz's mapper chart show Mapper X is supported, then all game using said mapper are then listed as supported. There is no way to make a list accounting for bugs in mapper logic that have yet to be found/noticed. It is merely a tool for people wanting to save time and not wanting to first find the what mapper the game they want to check use, then checking what iNES mapper # it is associated with and then check Krikzz's mapper chart to see if it's supposed to be suported or not.

Also, that list was made with the first S1M1 update and do not account for the 12 or so new mappers Krikzz added on S2M2. Since the new mappers are not listed in the change list, I can't easily update the list to show any change in compatibility.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 05:38 AM by SkinnyV »

Offline stonie

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Re: Games Not Working Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 05:33 AM »
ya i told him that star tropics is on a supported mapper at least, so i believe this list is for bugs
flashcarts- acecard 2i, everdrive md, everdrive n8, cyclo ievolution

Offline Majestic_Lizard

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Re: Games Not Working Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 05:46 AM »
The list was compiled using Krikzz mapper support info. If Krikzz's mapper chart show Mapper X is supported, then all game using said mapper are then listed as supported. There is no way to make a list accounting for bugs in mapper logic that have yet to be found/noticed. It is merely a tool for people wanting to save time and not wanting to first find the what mapper the game they want to check use, then checking what iNES mapper # it is associated with and then check Krikzz's mapper chart to see if it's supposed to be suported or not.

Also, that list was made with the first S1M1 update and do not account for the 12 or so new mappers Krikzz added on S2M2. Since the new mappers are not listed in the change list, I can't easily update the list to show any change in compatibility.

No one is criticizing you or the work you have done. What is being stated is that some games don't work and this is a thread to report those non-working games, that way they can be fixed in the future. The compatibility list you provided is a good starting point, so it was included for that reason.

Offline SkinnyV

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Re: Games Not Working Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 05:55 AM »
I'm not taking it as criticism don't worry. Just wanted to make sure people understood what was the goal of that list (it was made before anyone had received their N8), what was the criteria for a game to be listed as "supported" and the limitation of it.

Knowing the nature of NES mapper logic simulation, people should expect a lot more games that are supposed to be supported according to the official mapper chart from Krikzz or my unofficial compatibility list will turn out to be broken or problematic. Of course those games should be reported so Krikzz can try to figure it out but I do not plan on manually correcting the list to remove a game that is supposed to be supported but are not due to a bug in the way the everdrive simulate the mapper. Such action would not only be time consuming but also because the Everdrive N8 is still really new and those buys will be ironed out anyway.

So don't worry, I am not feeling attacked or anything as I know perfectly the list won't ever be 100% accurate!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 06:37 AM by SkinnyV »

Offline SkinnyV

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 06:37 AM »
Well, turn out all of those games except for Abadox are using iNES mapper 4 so it's safe to assume something is wrong with MMC3 support. I tried them all and get the same result as you on clean dump. The thing with Startropic 1 and 2 is that they actually use MMC6 and not MMC3. MMC6 doesn't have it's own iNES mapper assigned because it is very similar to MMC3 in the way it behave so it's still listed under mapper 4 but I think I remember that there is a difference in the way it handle the SRAM which could be the culprit for Startropic refusing to register your character and save it.

Edit: After some looking around, MMC6 handle WRAM differently, not sure if it's what is causing the bug in Startropic as I would assume Krikzz would know about it. Here's the info from NESdev's wiki
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 06:42 AM by SkinnyV »

Offline phoenixdownita

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 07:52 AM »
I reached the same conclusion that MMC3 support is a little buggy.
Can anyone check which MMC3 is in use in the games with issues?
According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Management_Controller) there are a few revisions (A, B and C) and maybe the bug is only on one of them or maybe N8 simulates only one for now(probably B because it seems Mario World 3 works just fine) hence the games with the other have issues... don't know, just speculating at this point but we do have a case for SNES DSP 1/1A/1B with Pilot Wings breaking attract mode if DSP 1B is use.

Another MMC3 game with some bizarre grafx glitch is Super Xevious (J), it doesn't make it unplayable but it does look a little weird.

Offline SkinnyV

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 08:10 AM »
The different revision shouldn't be the issue as far as I know. Also, it might be more productive and time saving to add what mapper a game use when adding to the problematic game thread.

Abadox: iNES mapper #1 (MMC1B2)
Karnov : iNES mapper #206 (Namcot 109)
Startropic: iNES mapper #4 (MMC6B)
Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II: iNES mapper #4 (MMC6B)
Rad Racer 2: iNES mapper #4 (MMC3B)
Uncanny X-Men, The : iNES mapper #2 (74x)
Super Xevious: iNES mapper #206 (Namcot 109)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 08:21 AM by SkinnyV »

Offline Majestic_Lizard

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 08:57 AM »
Well, turn out all of those games except for Abadox are using iNES mapper 4 so it's safe to assume something is wrong with MMC3 support. I tried them all and get the same result as you on clean dump. The thing with Startropic 1 and 2 is that they actually use MMC6 and not MMC3. MMC6 doesn't have it's own iNES mapper assigned because it is very similar to MMC3 in the way it behave so it's still listed under mapper 4 but I think I remember that there is a difference in the way it handle the SRAM which could be the culprit for Startropic refusing to register your character and save it.

Edit: After some looking around, MMC6 handle WRAM differently, not sure if it's what is causing the bug in Startropic as I would assume Krikzz would know about it. Here's the info from NESdev's wiki

LOL. I have a little bit of trouble comprehending all of that. But it seems you are saying the way it is handling memory for saving might be an issue. Well, I really am just talking out of my butt here, but on Wikipedia (not the best source, I know) there is an article that states that MMC6 is distinguished from MMC3 mainly in that MMC6 uses an additional 1 KB of RAM for save data. Could it be that Star Tropics is being handled as an MMC3 game, without that additional 1 KB and that is why it isn't working?

Offline SkinnyV

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 09:17 AM »
Only Krikzz will be able to tell us how he implemented MMC3/MMC6. The best source of info on mapper is the NESDev wiki if you are looking for specific info. There's a good change people editing the wikipedia entry are taking their info there anyway.

Update: Good news, after pondering a bit about why some of the ROM were not working, I managed to figure out and fix the issue with Karnov and Super Xevious. Their header was instructing the Everdrive N8 that they were using iNES mapper #4 (MMC3). While MMC3 and Namcot 109 (iNES mapper #206) are similar enough that game can sometime still run when emulated as MMC3, this is incorrect. I corrected  the header and they now seem to run fine. I created IPS patch to fix those issue and updated my No-Intro fix pack to add those games to the list. You can download the pack right here:

No-Intro NES Header Fix

We can now cross those games from the problematic games list but I am now looking the rest of the games from the latest No-Intro set using mapper 206 and I can already say that about half of them are improperly headered. I'll look into them, fix those needed and update the pack later.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 10:44 PM by SkinnyV »

Offline JimmyMz

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 04:03 PM »
removed
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 05:45 PM by jimmyemunoz »
Nothing for sale right now, but more stuff coming soon. Message me on this forum by clicking the envelope icon under my name.

Offline Majestic_Lizard

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 07:18 PM »
{side discussion removed from post}
It sounds like the main games that I would like to see working (Star Tropics and Star Tropics 2), require an additional feature that MMC3 support lacks (that of an additional 1 KB for game saves). I would think that if the mapper support needs to be augmented in someway, that those games probably aren't going to work simply by being edited.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 09:11 PM by Majestic_Lizard »

Offline SkinnyV

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 07:50 PM »
It is not the first 15 bytes jimmy, it's 16 bytes. Also you got to make sure there is a header and not just modify the first 16 bytes of the game code. Of course it is not rocket science or anything special to edit or add header, the reason why I create patch to do it is mainly for user that do not know anything about hex editing or mapper and do not feel like taking time to learn to fix them or hex exit them.

And you are right majestic, Startropic won't be fixed by simple header editing, that's something Krikzz will have to look into.

For those not interested in editing over 20 roms one by one (it's really an hassle), I'll be updating the pack to add a way to put all the problematic rom in a folder and patch them all at the sane time so you don't have to individually modify or patch them.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 07:58 PM by SkinnyV »

Offline JimmyMz

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 09:06 PM »
removed
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 05:45 PM by jimmyemunoz »
Nothing for sale right now, but more stuff coming soon. Message me on this forum by clicking the envelope icon under my name.

Offline SkinnyV

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Re: Games Not Working / Bug Reporting Thread
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 10:33 PM »
Lol of course I see your point. I never explained how to do it as I expected peoples that were interested to already know how to edit header or just do a simple google search. You can use application made to edit header much easier than hex editing though. The main reason behind those fix I post is to save time as I just spend 2 days fixing and testing over 70 games so I can just provide the other with a fast and hassle free solution that I wish I had access to instead of spending hour doing mindless work!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 12:11 AM by SkinnyV »