Author Topic: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?  (Read 27056 times)

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Offline desy

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Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« on: June 26, 2016, 04:14 AM »
Hi, I'm using the Everdrive NES N8 with a front-loader NES and a Sony Trinitron CRT TV. I've noticed that while playing some games, there are some small random white artifacts that quickly flicker around the screen and then disappear.. maybe like 2-10 very quick white flickers every second.

I have captured a picture of Tetris intro splash with one of the random white flickers:
http://imgur.com/CzNXZ5S

When I remove the Everdrive N8 and put my original copy of Tetris, there is no flickering anymore so somehow it seems related to my N8..  It seems to only happen with certain games and certain scenes.. some games display no artifacting.

I will try on another NES and TV but expect to see the same.

Has anyone seen this sort of flickering?

Thanks for your help


« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 07:00 AM by desy »

Offline desy

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2016, 04:27 AM »
UPDATE: I tried another front loader NES and the issue went away! I used the same power adapater and RCA cable.

One Nintendo displays the artifacting 100% of the time
Second Nintendo does not, ever.

Perhaps a difference in quality of parts in the NES? Strange that only with Everdrive this symptom appears. Original Tetris game does not exhibit the artifact on either system.

I found another post on here that sounds very similar to what I've mentioned: http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=2634.0

His fix was also to replace the NES itself.

Offline goombakid

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2016, 08:13 AM »
Connector problem, possibly.

Offline desy

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2016, 12:07 AM »
I don't think so. I just boiled the 72-pin connector and see no difference. I've also tried removing & re-inserting the everdrive many times and it always reproduces the same behaviour. I think this particular NES just has inferior components needed to run the Everdrive without this artifacting. I've seen Krikzz mention having a NES with good components is important.. perhaps this is an example.

Offline DoubleDragon

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2016, 09:20 PM »
I bought the N8 a month ago and I just registered here, because I have been experiencing the exact same problem as you have. I'm glad you were able to make a photograph of it, because it's hard to capture! These artifacts appear as soon as I power on the NES with the N8 inserted. I swapped out the 72-pin connector with a spare one and still the same problem. The artifacts do not appear when I use normal cartridges. I am seeing these problems on a PAL NES (Spanish version).

I do have to add that the artifacts are not so noticeable during gameplay as to totally spoil the experience, but they're still a nuisance and I'd prefer to have an N8 without artifacts....  :-\

Offline desy

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2016, 04:50 AM »
Hi DoubleDragon,

Are you able to try another NES system?

Do all games show the same short white lines, or only certain games? The picture I took is from Nintendo's version of Tetris opening screen


Offline NES nostalgic gamer

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 08:51 PM »
Hello everyone,

I have the same problem, I bought the everdrive from the Stone Age gamer site, and I am using it to play on a front loader NTSC NES with RGB mod, framemeister and new 72 pin connector (death grip), all the capacitors are new, the modder also got a voltage regulator in the system to smooth out the power and i use an original AC adapter.

The problem is that here in my town where in live in Mexico I am unable to try on another console, because I'm new here.

The question is how to fix it?
Is the mod affecting the outcome image?
Should I buy another AC adapter? (For example RetroDC)
Should I get a refurbished 72 pin connector?
Or is it an everdrive problem?

Also the cartridge gets really hot

With original games I don't have the problem, it's only with the N8

Another problem that I have is that it sometimes changes the letters on the menu to unreadable squares, I have to take it out, back in several times until it "works" with the random artifacts


Offline FeverDrive

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2016, 01:10 AM »
I guess the problem is bad contacts/conductivity in the connector.
The easiest solution is to get a new console that doesn't have the problem, now if you want to do more work try changing the cartridge connector.
I don't think the voltage regulator mod creates this problem.
WELCO
METOT
HENEX
TLEVEL

Offline desy

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2016, 08:43 AM »
FYI I've tried 4 different front-loader NES systems... 3 of 4 displayed the weird artifacting behavior (tested with Tetris).

Offline immrbig

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2016, 11:32 AM »
I have had something similar come up in a few games.

Are there sometimes many of these artifacts on the screen? I saw these in Metroid, Kirby, SMB3, and Punch-out! in addition to Tetris.


Offline desy

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2016, 03:56 AM »
Yes, your picture looks just like mine. I do see multiple lines just like that, very quick flickers (1 frame?), somewhat-random locations.. and only some games as you mentioned.

Offline desy

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2016, 05:24 AM »
I also see it in those same games (Metroid, SMB3, and Punch-out!) .. Kirby I didn't notice, i do see flicker at start of first level but I think that's just the way the game is.

Offline immrbig

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2016, 03:48 AM »
I Kirby I only see the noise on the pause screen. My front-loader is RGB modded, but I still see the noise if I disable the mod and go back to regular composite output.

I was playing around with different filtering capacitors last week, and when had the top RF shield off I noticed that the noise got worse in SMB3. I started seeing it at the black end-of-level screen instead of only on the scrolling secret cloud areas (W1L3, for example).

It appears that the N8 is generating noise, which is getting radiated/leaked back into somewhere that causes the white lines on the screen. I tried shielding the N8 itself, but that didn't have an effect.

There have been other cases where NES systems generated noise only when an N8 was present. See this thread, for example: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50313

I removed that transistor on my machine but didn't notice any difference.

Unfortunately, I don't have any equipment that would let me properly diagnose this issue. I suspect that some extra shielding or a strategically placed bypass cap would fix this.

Offline zansatsu0

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2016, 07:27 AM »
UPDATE: 9/2/2016: Added revision 10 w/ Mitsumi AV/P.

I just recently got into restoring NES front loader consoles and I have been collecting them for repair and re-sale.

I too am having this problem. I only have access to front loaders at this time so I can't speak for the top loader, but I do have access to multiple revisions of front loader hardware.

What it's not, that I can tell:
-- It doesn't appear to be aging caps that cause this issue as I have recapped the AV/Power module AND motherboard of the two that exhibit this already (I use Nichion and Rubycon caps).
-- It's not the voltage regulator as I've replaced the 17805 on one in hopes that it was that.
-- It's not the 72 pin connector because I have a Blinking Light Win and this behavior is identical with an OEM, clean, and functioning 72 pin connector.
-- It's not the wall wart as I have several OEM 9VAC and a reliable aftermarket DC wall wart at 10VDC.
-- It doesn't appear to be RF shielding: On revisions that do not exhibit this behavior, a motherboard stripped bare and played will not show these artifacts.

The only commonality that I can tell so far between NES front loaders is that ones that have the Mitsumi AV/Power module on a NES-CPU-08 motherboard exhibit this artifacting. But this has only been on two consoles. This is confirmed on 4 consoles so far. I need to get all the consoles at my disposal fully functional and document their hardware configurations to see if there is any real pattern.

We should probably start listing motherboard revisions and AV/Power module brands just in case. If you have a top loader doing this, please chime in. I think the more documentation we have on this, the better a chance we have of solving this. I will update this post if I find any different configurations exhibiting artifacts.

Revisions I have seen this on so far:
Code: [Select]
NES-CPU-08 w/ Mitsumi AV/Power module (2/2 tested)
NES-CPU-10 w/ Mitsumi AV/Power module (2/2 tested)(Added 9/2/2016)

Of note:
I've seen the occasional *singular* blip on Alps powered units, but it's rare and goes away after the internals warm up. Mitsumi powered units (so far) are the only ones exhibiting this behavior. This is far from scientific until I have other sources confirm my findings of course.



This makes me wish I had an oscilloscope so I can watch for anything odd when the artifacts appear. I've also noticed while recapping that the Alps modules have about 2 to 3 more caps on average than the Mitsumi modules, so I was wondering if that makes any difference. The designs are different between the Mitsumi and Alps modules and maybe this contributes to the noise? Probably conjecture at this point as it's too soon to tell. It may even be the MoBo revision, regardless of the AV/P module.


« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 06:52 AM by zansatsu0 »

Offline zansatsu0

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Re: Everdrive N8 random white artifacts on screen?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2016, 03:05 AM »
I've spent most of the day contemplating this and researching in free moments. As mentioned before by other members, I too suspect the Everdrive is introducing 5V rail noise and it's interfering with the graphics.

I say this because I'm putting together gifts for the holiday season and I purchased a copy of Mike Tyson's Punch Out. There is no image noise on any revision using an original cartridge. Regardless of whether or not there is a difference in the design of the AV modules or MoBos, this has to be something the Everdrive is doing and the Mitsumi module's minimal design has probably highlighted this.

I'm tempted to spec out some caps that will fit inside my cartridge and solder to pins 1 and 3 on the 3.3V AMS1117 to see if this decouples the noise. There is a tantalum cap that appears to be soldered across 5V input and ground on the N8, but the value may not be high enough.

If anyone reading this has an oscilloscope and wants to measure 5V line noise while playing Mike Tyson's Punchout on the N8 and comment, I would love to know their results.


« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 03:14 AM by zansatsu0 »