Author Topic: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones  (Read 21846 times)

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Offline J^P

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2020, 10:52 AM »
Seriously? Posting links to a clone device on the genuine manufacturers forum?

Jeez, so tired of reading things like that. SD2SNES is completly open-source and its circuit, data and pcb gerber are offered officially for free to anyone by ikari. It is completly different than a chinese company cloning the Everdrive for example. Anyone can freely build and sell an SD2SNES and it is completly legit. Now some chinese company do have crappy quality assurance and testing on their product, but they’re not clone, they’re just SD2SNES build/assembled by a different company. Now, weither or not they should be advertised with link here is a different story, but those company are actually playing by the rules for once and they’re not « cloning » a product.

And I am sick of ppl saying that crap again and again.
He said SD2SNES Pro aka FXPAK. Maybe I am blind, but I am sure you can lead me to the open source pcbs and open sourced boot loader for the Pro maybe? You said it's open, so prove it! https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes Otherwise everything said is true and the whole clone mess should be permamantly removed off this forum.
Did you even check the link you posted? You answered your own question lol

« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 10:56 AM by J^P »

Offline Relikk

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2020, 01:42 PM »
SD2SNES is completly open-source and its circuit, data and pcb gerber are offered officially for free to anyone by ikari.

I don't think so. The firmware is open to contributors, sure. The PCB schematics up to Rev. F of the old SD2SNES were public, and every revision from then onward was not made public, for the sole reason that the Chinese were manufacturing their own boards based off the Rev. F schematics. ikari doesn't even offer support for those boards because of the influx of people asking for help when their "clones" died because of the cheap parts they were using.

Offline sdqfsdf

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2020, 02:56 PM »
Wow... I thanked the person who shared the AliExpress link, and you censor both the link and my thanking reply?

So what that it is on AliExpress? I can make my own FXPAK Pro, it would be more expensive, but I could, and then start selling it on my website of choice. If that happens to be AliExpress, is that wrong?
They just call it "Rev X" if you search for it. I admit it's weird because of Revision H being the latest revision. But it is still based on the same design. I could change the pcb and put my logo on it, would that be wrong?

Can anyone shed some light on this? Seriously, I like to know how I am in the wrong here for getting a printed PCB, pre programmed FPGA etc, from a Github repo, pre assambled, from AliExpress/China?
If I am, I really gladly would like to know, because I do care about these things.

Thanks in advance.

Offline sdqfsdf

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2020, 03:06 PM »
SD2SNES is completly open-source and its circuit, data and pcb gerber are offered officially for free to anyone by ikari.

I don't think so. The firmware is open to contributors, sure. The PCB schematics up to Rev. F of the old SD2SNES were public, and every revision from then onward was not made public, for the sole reason that the Chinese were manufacturing their own boards based off the Rev. F schematics. ikari doesn't even offer support for those boards because of the influx of people asking for help when their "clones" died because of the cheap parts they were using.

Actually, that may perhaps be correct? I must admit having a lot of trouble finding the correct parts. I thought I found it eventually though.
The Github repo just needs a better readme, BOM list and cleanup/update.

Why wouldn't we want things to be open source? With the first link the chain is forged...

Offline dreimer

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2020, 05:08 PM »
Seriously? Posting links to a clone device on the genuine manufacturers forum?

Jeez, so tired of reading things like that. SD2SNES is completly open-source and its circuit, data and pcb gerber are offered officially for free to anyone by ikari. It is completly different than a chinese company cloning the Everdrive for example. Anyone can freely build and sell an SD2SNES and it is completly legit. Now some chinese company do have crappy quality assurance and testing on their product, but they’re not clone, they’re just SD2SNES build/assembled by a different company. Now, weither or not they should be advertised with link here is a different story, but those company are actually playing by the rules for once and they’re not « cloning » a product.

And I am sick of ppl saying that crap again and again.
He said SD2SNES Pro aka FXPAK. Maybe I am blind, but I am sure you can lead me to the open source pcbs and open sourced boot loader for the Pro maybe? You said it's open, so prove it! https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes Otherwise everything said is true and the whole clone mess should be permamantly removed off this forum.
Did you even check the link you posted? You answered your own question lol



Where? I see no PCB schematics and no bootloader. >Rev F I mean

Offline FeverDrive

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2020, 01:42 AM »
 ???

WELCO
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Offline dreimer

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2020, 03:27 AM »
This discussion does not lead anywhere if no one reads what was said! REV F IS open source, but we talk about a FXPak here. Sliiight difference.

Offline FeverDrive

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2020, 10:33 AM »
You're right Dreimer, the confusion is because that Chinese SD2NES is NOT the pro even when it says so. It's based on the open source SD2SNES Mk2 (NOT pro, which is Mk3).

The chinese have new SD2SNES Pro
This is incorrect, the chinese product uses the word "Pro" but it isn't equivalent to the SD2SNES/FXPAK Pro.
It seems to be a variation based on some older SD2SNES Mk2, not sure which revision.
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Offline sdqfsdf

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2020, 01:26 PM »
You're right Dreimer, the confusion is because that Chinese SD2NES is NOT the pro even when it says so. It's based on the open source SD2SNES Mk2 (NOT pro, which is Mk3).

The chinese have new SD2SNES Pro
This is incorrect, the chinese product uses the word "Pro" but it isn't equivalent to the SD2SNES/FXPAK Pro.
It seems to be a variation based on some older SD2SNES Mk2, not sure which revision.
Are you sure?

The Chinese "Pro" version seems to use a Cyclone 2. (The Cyclone 2 might be a copy/clone on there, but regardless)
The non-pro SD2SNES uses a Spartan 3 instead.

So, with that in mind, it seems like it should be in spec with the legit FXPak Pro, correct?


Edit:
Plus, the AliExpress "Rev X" aka FXPak Pro clone listing, explicitly states it supports SA-1 and MSU-1, which are exclusive to the Pro, right? (Information is all over the place, so I can't be 100% sure)

Edit 2:
Hmm, it seems the real FXPak Pro uses a Cylone IV, so indeed, the clone "Pro" is not a Pro indeed.
But neither is it like a non-pro, which used a Spartan 3.
Very odd, since the FW upgrade was working according to someone here a few posts back.

Edit 3:
There are mentions of the Cyclone II, for example in here:
https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes/blob/a01fb3d6a1175b38fd077efcfac36d716d6807f0/verilog/sd2snes_cx4/main.qsf

But there are actual Cyclone IV features, that just won't work otherwise, not because it is not ported over, or enabled otherwise, but because the slower FPGA's would not be able to keep up:
https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes/blob/e6e89598fb5a53a6d42b4676990b84e3d03a098f/verilog/sd2snes_sa1/main.v

So, I'm very upset that there is no BOM and PCB that is open source for the FXPak Pro, but I will be getting a "original".
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 02:30 PM by sdqfsdf »

Offline lee4

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2020, 04:05 PM »

The Chinese "Pro" version seems to use a Cyclone 2. (The Cyclone 2 might be a copy/clone on there, but regardless)
The non-pro SD2SNES uses a Spartan 3 instead.

So, with that in mind, it seems like it should be in spec with the legit FXPak Pro, correct?


Edit:
Plus, the AliExpress "Rev X" aka FXPak Pro clone listing, explicitly states it supports SA-1 and MSU-1, which are exclusive to the Pro, right? (Information is all over the place, so I can't be 100% sure)

Edit 2:
Hmm, it seems the real FXPak Pro uses a Cylone IV, so indeed, the clone "Pro" is not a Pro indeed.
But neither is it like a non-pro, which used a Spartan 3.
Very odd, since the FW upgrade was working according to someone here a few posts back.

Edit 3:
There are mentions of the Cyclone II, for example in here:
https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes/blob/a01fb3d6a1175b38fd077efcfac36d716d6807f0/verilog/sd2snes_cx4/main.qsf

But there are actual Cyclone IV features, that just won't work otherwise, not because it is not ported over, or enabled otherwise, but because the slower FPGA's would not be able to keep up:
https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes/blob/e6e89598fb5a53a6d42b4676990b84e3d03a098f/verilog/sd2snes_sa1/main.v

So, I'm very upset that there is no BOM and PCB that is open source for the FXPak Pro, but I will be getting a "original".

All legitimate Krikzz builds sd2snes and FXPak Pro supports
BS-X
DSP-1/1B
DSP-2
DSP-3
DSP-4
ST-010
Cx4
MSU-1
S-RTC
OBC-1
GSU (Super FX)
SA-1
S-DD1 enhancement chips

Differences between Non-Pro and Pro is
Pro can load multi enhancement chips cores at once,
Non-Pro can load 2 enhancement chips cores only
and i assuming chinese build can load 1 enhancement chip core only

« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 04:12 PM by lee4 »
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Offline Magpye

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2020, 12:17 AM »
So, the only reason why the pro isn't open source is so that China stops cutting into Krikzz's profits? Cool. Also deleting my previous post? Double cool.

Offline sdqfsdf

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2020, 01:09 AM »
So, the only reason why the pro isn't open source is so that China stops cutting into Krikzz's profits? Cool. Also deleting my previous post? Double cool.
Yea, not really.

But StoneAgeGamer and Everdrive.me apparently have the files for the Pro version.
Maybe there has been some agreement on a kickback percentage so they can have it exclusively? And that is fine, but if so, be open about it.
Otherwise, the reasoning is... well, let's say we all are allowed to have opinions.

Offline kr4534

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2020, 06:55 PM »
I suspect that I've found a problem with my clone SD2SNES that's not present on the genuine models, but hoping somone here can help me test. My clone is a Rev H and it can successfully play everything i've tested including Mario RPG, Star Fox, and Street Fighter Alpha 2.

It will not play N-Warp Daisakusen and I don't know why. It freezes at the intro video and after a battle on my US SNES. Anyone able to test/confirm on their clone?

Offline Richardragon87

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2020, 09:01 PM »
I suspect that I've found a problem with my clone SD2SNES that's not present on the genuine models, but hoping somone here can help me test. My clone is a Rev H and it can successfully play everything i've tested including Mario RPG, Star Fox, and Street Fighter Alpha 2.

It will not play N-Warp Daisakusen and I don't know why. It freezes at the intro video and after a battle on my US SNES. Anyone able to test/confirm on their clone?

Can confirm it's the same on the real non clone version. Fun fact the game Actraiser 2 only works on one region the other will freeze after the map selection video this happens on both the clone and unclone of the SD2SNES even on the Snesadvance too.
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Offline kr4534

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Re: Differences between genuine SD2SNES and Chinese clones
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2020, 05:01 PM »
Can confirm it's the same on the real non clone version.

Thanks, @Richardragon87. I've been getting conflicting reports. Can you confirm what revision you have?

Here's what I've found so far.

FXPAKPRO  - working on US NTSC (1 report)
Official SD2SNES Rev F - working on US NTSC (1 report)
Clone Rev H - FREEZING on US NTSC (my report)
Official SD2SNES - FREEZING on US NTSC (Richardragon87)