Author Topic: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT  (Read 11000 times)

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Offline GadgetUK

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2016, 11:46 AM »
Your point there about it working when you added your own bodies capacitance (and affected the return path) is even more evidence that its a cross talk related issue.  Try what I've suggested!

Offline prg318

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2016, 11:42 PM »
Your point there about it working when you added your own bodies capacitance (and affected the return path) is even more evidence that its a cross talk related issue.  Try what I've suggested!
Thanks - I can see this issue being related to some kind of cross talk interference.  I'm going to order some copper tape to try what you have suggested.  Do you have any suggestions on what I could ground to?  Would grounding to the outlet plate be sufficient?

For the time being, I reorganized the HDMI cable going from the NT to my AVR and the NT power cable to be further away from other wires behind the TV (speaker wires, other HDMI cables, other power cables, etc).  I played for about an hour after reorganizing the cables and still had some issues crop up (Duck Tails froze on the first level; music continued to play but I could not do anything and all the tiles were corrupted).  I'm really looking forward to trying this grounded cooper tape suggestion

I also tried hooking up the NT directly to my TV instead of going through the AVR to eliminate the possibilities of the problem having to do with the AVR (wasn't sure if some potential grounding issue with the AVR over HDMI would cause something like this) but I had the same issues when going direct to the TV

Offline GadgetUK

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2016, 12:43 PM »
If the grounding plate is really grounded - connected to the -ve DC connection, then that should be fine.  It probably will be!  Just put your multimeter on connectivity test and measure around.  If you try putting the copper tape over the traces and vias on the NT board itself, you could always solder a wire directly to the ground pin on the 72 pin or 60 pin sockets - just check continuity to make sure you are connecting to ground.  Might be easier to try at the Everdrive end first, but not sure if that will be easy or not - I've not seen the Everdrive PCB to see where it might be possible to stick the tape, but looking at images of the NT motherboard I see all the cart traces and vias leading to / from the cart sockets, so that looks a good candidate to me.

I don't think there's a design issue with either device, if there is cross talk its purely a case of 2 modern devices, each primarily designed to work with older hardware, and stick them together and you've possibly got a cross talk issue.

Offline prg318

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2016, 07:43 PM »
If the Analogue NT needs a ground, I wonder why it uses a two prong plug?

The analogue and my TV are both plugged into a two prong outlet (no ground)

I have outlets in my kitchen that are grounded (and two others in not convenient locations), but that's not where I would really ever be using my NT/N8.  Is there something else that I can ground to?  I could try grounding to one of the less convenient plugs in other rooms to diagnose, but wouldn't be able to use it as a permanent solution.
Let me know what you think
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 08:22 PM by prg318 »

Offline GadgetUK

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2016, 08:45 PM »
When I say ground, I am talking about the -ve return path, not earth on mains outlet.  Pin 1 on 60 pin socket, or pin 72 on 72 pin socket.  Do you have a multimeter to test with?

Offline GadgetUK

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2016, 09:10 PM »
See these as reference.  This is the cart end obviously, but you might need to do this on the NT mobo - hard to tell which end is best to add the tape.   So in order to work out where your ground pin is on the NT mobo end just apply a bit of logic - ie. look at how the cart plugs into the NT and then you can work out the pin on the mobo vs these photos.

I tried adding as attachments but apparently the upload folder is full =/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8jo9ti7dk3dda3/60%20pin.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9haknrimeqf5bur/72pin.jpg?dl=0

Also check you aren't shorting anything with the copper tape before you power it up.  If you don't feel comfortable doing this test it might be better off leaving it to someone else!

EDIT: Make sure your Copper tape as an insulated sticky back as well, otherwise you will short out vias.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 01:50 AM by GadgetUK »

Offline KRIKzz

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2016, 12:26 PM »
Could someone try adding a 100ohm resistor in series with the M2 pin, and perhaps the system clock pin if you are using a 72 pin socket.  Here's the pinout for reference:- http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Cartridge_connector

I've been experimenting and adding a 100ohm resistor on the M2 line brings 100% stability for me when using the N8 NES cart with a Famicom adapter on a Famicom.   I do believe in the case of the adapter its the length of the M2 line and where its routed.  I think there's an impedance problem in some scenarios - in my case the Famicom adapter, but I cannot help but wonder if the same problems with ringing might exist when trying to use one of these carts with the NT.

Just tried, but ut does not help

Offline GadgetUK

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2016, 12:37 PM »
Did you see the follow up part - adding copper tape over the traces and vias going to the cart edge?  I suspect it might need doing on the NT side rather than on the ED, but it might help at either side.  I've had 4 people say this solved their problems with the 72 pin to 60 pin adapter.   The resistor and cap stuff was me testing prior to the copper tape solution.

Offline prg318

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2016, 11:56 PM »
When I say ground, I am talking about the -ve return path, not earth on mains outlet.  Pin 1 on 60 pin socket, or pin 72 on 72 pin socket.  Do you have a multimeter to test with?
See these as reference.  This is the cart end obviously, but you might need to do this on the NT mobo - hard to tell which end is best to add the tape.   So in order to work out where your ground pin is on the NT mobo end just apply a bit of logic - ie. look at how the cart plugs into the NT and then you can work out the pin on the mobo vs these photos.

I tried adding as attachments but apparently the upload folder is full =/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8jo9ti7dk3dda3/60%20pin.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9haknrimeqf5bur/72pin.jpg?dl=0

Also check you aren't shorting anything with the copper tape before you power it up.  If you don't feel comfortable doing this test it might be better off leaving it to someone else!

EDIT: Make sure your Copper tape as an insulated sticky back as well, otherwise you will short out vias.

Thanks for the update GadgetUK; much appreciated.  I was confusing the return path with the center earth ground prong.

Oddly enough, this issue has occurred much less frequently over the past couple weeks.  Previously there were days where the Everdrive/powerPAK were nearly unplayable on the NT due to the issues I've described, but I haven't had many issues playing Gradius, Life Force, Crystalis and Kung Fu on the N8 and PowerPAK over the past few weeks.  However, with as sporadic as this issue has been, I would not be surprised to be plagued with this issue again in the future.

I'm going to hold off on the copper tape for the time being, but will be following the chatter on the forums closely and may consider it in the future.  Thanks again

Offline GadgetUK

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2016, 01:51 PM »
When I say ground, I am talking about the -ve return path, not earth on mains outlet.  Pin 1 on 60 pin socket, or pin 72 on 72 pin socket.  Do you have a multimeter to test with?
See these as reference.  This is the cart end obviously, but you might need to do this on the NT mobo - hard to tell which end is best to add the tape.   So in order to work out where your ground pin is on the NT mobo end just apply a bit of logic - ie. look at how the cart plugs into the NT and then you can work out the pin on the mobo vs these photos.

I tried adding as attachments but apparently the upload folder is full =/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8jo9ti7dk3dda3/60%20pin.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9haknrimeqf5bur/72pin.jpg?dl=0

Also check you aren't shorting anything with the copper tape before you power it up.  If you don't feel comfortable doing this test it might be better off leaving it to someone else!

EDIT: Make sure your Copper tape as an insulated sticky back as well, otherwise you will short out vias.

Thanks for the update GadgetUK; much appreciated.  I was confusing the return path with the center earth ground prong.

Oddly enough, this issue has occurred much less frequently over the past couple weeks.  Previously there were days where the Everdrive/powerPAK were nearly unplayable on the NT due to the issues I've described, but I haven't had many issues playing Gradius, Life Force, Crystalis and Kung Fu on the N8 and PowerPAK over the past few weeks.  However, with as sporadic as this issue has been, I would not be surprised to be plagued with this issue again in the future.

I'm going to hold off on the copper tape for the time being, but will be following the chatter on the forums closely and may consider it in the future.  Thanks again

There are a few reasons the problem can appear to be better at some times vs others - humidity, temperature and noise in the general vicinity will all have an effect.   I found the same thing - with particular relationship to temperature and humidity when I noticed and fixed a similar problem with Neo Geo multicarts.

Offline prg318

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Re: [Analogue NT] Everdrive Menu Disfunctional on my NT
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2018, 09:26 PM »
Hi,

Sorry to bump an old topic but I have an update to my issues...  I was previously living in a very old rental property with shoddy electricity.. My computer and other appliances worked, but I'm not so sure how good the ground was or anything..

I recently moved to a new home with grounded electricity and I have not had any problems with the N8 on my Analogue NT yet.  I do think this likely has to do with some kind of interference as people posted earlier.

Really happy to see the N8 working with the NT!  Thanks for everyone's help