Author Topic: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles  (Read 19733 times)

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Offline leonquest

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2018, 12:07 AM »
The problem is that he asked the readers of the article avoid our products

This is not true, he said "use sparingly"  but only for older models, which as of today would only mean the super everdrive, everdrive gg and mega everdrive x7 which do not yet have voltage level translators.

I agree with you on the real life observation though, Rene is now hard pressed to prove just how much life reduction can theoretically be reduced from the everdrives in question (if at all, remember kevtris says he believes its the everdrive's lifespan at risk and not the console's).

The allegations aren't false, it's science. It's the conclusion resulting from the allegations that still need further scrutiny by knowledgeable men.

He never said everdrives straight out damaged consoles, he said from the beginning it was wear and tear, this was clear to me from day one. You must have gotten that from the public fear and outrage that ensued after the article :a lot of non technical people read it and just didn't understand it at all.
Everdrive64 V3 - SD2Snes rev. f - Everdrive N8 fami - MegaEd X3 - PS IO - MODE - MISTer

Offline Sarge

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2018, 12:26 AM »
Well, I do remember the article initially said "Avoid", and he changed the wording due to outcry.  Perhaps poorly chosen wording, but I don't think there was anything malicious to it.
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Offline EverDriver

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2018, 12:41 AM »
I am not sure it's possible to get reliable, precise results without substantial efforts (money and time).
Can you imagine what complex analysis should be done?
How many experiments should be made?
How much time will be spent for that?
Does it make sense to do that at all? He should do that if he wants to blame anyone. But he didn't.
I can't understand why the apparent proof provided by reality is not sufficient for you guys?
Why do you need to do experiments to prove anything if everything is ok and just that guy has problems in his fantasies?
I am already a bit tired to repeat the same but:
After long years a lot of EverDrives are used by a lot of people and there is no evidences of any damage.
Why should Krikzz waste a lot of his priceless time for that?

leonquest
It's ironical but actually your "This is not true" is not true.
I guess you just came a bit later and haven't seen the original text.
He wrote: avoid using EverDrives.
However a bit later he edited the article to: "use sparingly".

EverDrives are freely available. Consoles as well.
If you have a lot of money and free time you can order/make those experiments and get some numbers.
For example after how many years an old EverDrive will wear and tear the console so much that would cause a failure.

It's really frustrating to explain common sense things... you should be really biased about that guy.
What did he do so cool and amazing that you believe him so much?

Offline EverDriver

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2018, 12:54 AM »
I am really tired to explain and repeat primitive things.
I will write this once again and finish it.

The most important things here are EverDrives.
They allow you to run software on real consoles.

A lot of people have used them for long years.
No one had any problems with any damage to any consoles.

That's enough for me. I don't need to make experiments to prove myself that. I already know it.
And I don't use EverDrives sparingly. And I don't advise anyone to use them sparingly because such an advice is a heap of c...
Use your EverDrives as much as possible and get as much fun as possible.

That's it.

Offline Sarge

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2018, 01:20 AM »
I don't think you're quite reading our statements correctly, but even so, I don't think we're getting anywhere here.  I appreciate your zeal for KRIKzz's products, EverDriver, and wish you well.
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Offline leonquest

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2018, 02:37 AM »
I don't think you're quite reading our statements correctly, but even so, I don't think we're getting anywhere here.  I appreciate your zeal for KRIKzz's products, EverDriver, and wish you well.

Ditto.
Everdrive64 V3 - SD2Snes rev. f - Everdrive N8 fami - MegaEd X3 - PS IO - MODE - MISTer

Offline EverDriver

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2018, 02:42 AM »
No even single evidence of any damage after 6-8 years of an intensive usage by a lot of people.
Just deal with it.


Offline Majestic_Lizard

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2018, 10:47 AM »
BennVenn has a video on Youtube called "Can a bootleg/flash cart prematurely age or damage your console?!?!?" which may provide a more complete picture of how these cartridges operate in reality and shed a little light on lurking variables that the author of the article in question may have overlooked.

That being said, I am going to respond to statements made by another member here to clarify my position as to why Krikzz does not need to prove that his items do not damage consoles, or cause cancer, or attract bears, etc. I am not doing this to be antagonistic.

You didn't do your research...

...you are not an engineer.

This guy is repeating the same errors of the previous posts, as well as a few new errors. Although it is beginning to try my patience, the discussion isn't necessarily pointless. As my views are yet again being misrepresented I will civilly respond one last time. There are many fantastic examples of erroneous reasoning, so this will be good reading if you like that sort of thing.

You didn't do your research. This much was clear to me.

 It is clear to me that much less is clear to this person than he believes to be the case.

And yes, you are not an engineer.

This is the logical fallacy we call "appeal to accomplishment". It is where a person erroneously attempts to evaluate a statement based on the accomplishments of the person making the statement and not the merits of the statement being made. The fact that he keeps repeating this in each response is telling.

He keeps stating that one has to be a licensed professional engineer to be able to think critically or advocate a position with sound reasoning. He seems oblivious to the fact that this suggestion is insulting to everyone here as well as being plainly wrong.

I don't claim to be a super-intelligent person, but I do have multiple university degrees in the field of computer science and discussed this article with an actual engineer and a retired air force officer who used to work with the United Space Alliance (No, that isn't something from Star Trek, look it up). They agreed with my view. Further, there are engineers, teachers, computer programmers, and law enforcement detectives in my family. It isn't like I'm living in a vacuum of stupidity and technological ignorance.

Prove then that he profited from the site traffic.
Asking me how I could know that someone could profit off of an article that leads traffic directly to their store is kind of like asking me how could I possibly know the tooth fairy is really one of his parents.  No words.

Prove then that the 3 older everdrive models on the store do not consume faster a console's lifespan.
This is the logical fallacy we call "denying the antecedent". If a person claims bigfoot is stealing cars in New Jersey and I state he has not proven it, he doesn't get to tell me that I have to prove that bigfoot is NOT stealing cars in New Jersey to prove him wrong.

You claim that all of your suggestions are reasonable because they sound reasonable...

Wrong again. Reasonable in this context means that I submit that the statements are plainly obvious to any reasonable and informed person. The fact that he persists in expressing his view while attempting to support it with logical fallacies puts him at odds with reason.

...yet you reject scientific research because...

Wrong again, on two counts. The first error here is the "false dilemma" logical fallacy in which a statement is claimed to be "either/or" when there are additional options. I never rejected content of the article IN TOTAL and clearly stated that it contained a grain of truth. Meaning that there were valid points but that the overall picture is misleading (BennVenn Electronics has a great video explaining this in layman's terms).

The article this thread is referring to is not scientific research. It was one guy stating a dubious claim based on misleading and incomplete information. Although he has valid points, the article is not a carefully documented, systematic study of impartial scientific rigor published in a peer reviewed scientific journal.

Many people incorrectly think using technical terminology and schematics in an article amounts to bonafide scientific research. It does not.

At the end of the day, all Krikzz has to substantiate his argument is an old document...

"Denying the antecedent fallacy" again. Krikzz isn't the one making the argument. These devices have been out for years. We would have proof by now if there was anything to the premise of the article in question. It is incumbent upon the author making the claim to prove Krikzz is damaging consoles. It is NOT incumbent upon Krikzz to prove the reverse of the author's claim.

Having a console fail faster due to the use of out of spec devices is difficult to prove unless the failure is immediate, which is not the case here...

Wrong again. He keeps repeating this absurd claim. These devices have been out for many years now and there are forums of hundreds Everdrive users that would have no problem screaming to the heavens about Krikzz and his diabolical cartridges. So no, the failure would NOT have to be immediate in this case because there has been plenty of time for valid examples to come to light.

People who work in tech support will know this.

There are intelligent people in technical support. However, many technical support jobs require no more technical expertise or education than operating the burger cooker at McDonalds. That doesn't carry much weight here. I've talked to technical support staff in the Philippines that admitted they never completed high school.

...the evil pedestal he was put in.

Yet another straw-man fallacy. I didn't say the author was a cannibalistic devil worshiper.

Let's leave conjecture behind and this argument to the engineers from now on, shall we?

Here he's repeating the "call to accomplishment" logical fallacy yet again and doesn't understand what is meant by the term "conjecture". Here's a hint. It is a conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

Concrete evidence is not conjecture. Stating that there is no concrete evidence to support a claim is ALSO not conjecture. 

For example, there is no concrete evidence supporting the claim that "bigfoot hid an atomic bomb under the foundations of the Great Pyramids of Egypt". My statement that there is no evidence to support this claim is simply a FACTUAL OBSERVATION. This is NOT conjecture. I don't have to prove bigfoot does not exist.

The article--sophisticated though it may be--actually IS a piece of CONJECTURE. That doesn't mean that it does not contain factual information. Though it offers highly technical argumentation, it is based on an incomplete analysis with no body of statistics and no concrete proof.

Now my patience has reached its limit.



 

« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 10:52 AM by Majestic_Lizard »

Offline EverDriver

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2018, 12:28 AM »
Majestic_Lizard
Thanks once again!



Offline FeverDrive

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2018, 06:05 AM »
Here is BennVenn's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv4TeyLcSSw
It makes a lot of sense, at least to me.
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Offline EverDriver

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2018, 10:20 AM »
A proof is a good thing.
Thanks a lot BennVenn and Majestic_Lizard for your technical and logistical disproof.
But in our case it's even not needed to provide it. Because there is no problem.

If no even single evidence of any problem after up to 7-8 years of testing then what's probability that we will have at least one in the next 7-8 years?
A flexible and cautious example of the author about cancer doesn't work as well.
Even such a "late" delayed disease as lung cancer provides first victims in the first few years for some number of smokers. They don't need to wait for 20-30 for that.

We have enough strict customers who won't forgive us that. If they would have even a suspicion (not the fact) about such a serious problem we would know it. All the internet would know it without the author's help. It must have been happened after such a long period of time. It hasn't happened.
And it's normal. It happens so if there is no problem.

Offline Greg2600

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2018, 11:49 PM »
Well that video, unsurprisingly, dispelled it all.  Even Chinese bootlegs.  Although dbelectronics is presently fighting with everyone in the comments.  Will he ever give up?

Offline EverDriver

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2018, 01:51 AM »
The most interesting thing is the reason of the fight.
I tend to think that the most probable is arrogance and a lack of will to admit the made mistake and fear of reputational harm.
Or maybe somehow enjoys a bit of our popularity for own profit.

Offline opt2not

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2018, 01:15 AM »
LOL, awesome video!  Glad there's someone out there dispelling the theoretical nonsense. 

Offline EverDriver

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Re: [ARTICLE] - The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2018, 10:00 PM »