Author Topic: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support  (Read 14118 times)

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Offline dreimer

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@ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« on: October 17, 2017, 12:53 PM »
Hey guys, found this one yesterday and was really interested in the fact that it uses a Altera Cyclone V for emulating a whole SNES. Of course we don't need a whole SNES in our case, but the SA-1 is almost identical to a higher clocked SNES CPU and thus I wonder if it would be a idea to ask em for some code supporting the worlds best SNES flash cart getting SA-1 support?

https://www.analogue.co/pages/super-nt/

Offline James-F

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 02:14 PM »
Is this basically a SNES-on-a-chip made by 'not chinese' engineers and programmers?

The price of the units by this company includes countless of hours of reverse engineering and programming.
I don't believe they would be willing to 'help' reverse engineer the SA-1|SuperFX if there is no financial gain to them.
But, there is always the possibility that they know and love the SD2SNES and would gladly help ikari to make it.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 02:18 PM by James-F »
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Offline dreimer

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 02:23 PM »
Is this basically a SNES-on-a-chip made by 'not chinese' engineers and programmers?

The price of the units by this company includes countless of hours of reverse engineering and programming.
I don't believe they would be willing to 'help' reverse engineer the SA-1|SuperFX if there is no financial gain to them.
But, there is always the possibility that they know and love the SD2SNES and would gladly help ikari to make it.

You forget one thing, this is no simple SNES-on-a-chip. This is based on a similar FPGA we have on our sd2snes.

Offline James-F

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 02:35 PM »
I understand that.
I just don't believe a company that's there to make money will be willing to 'code support' without any financial gain.
Reverse engineering for a specific programmable hardware logic takes TIME,,, and time is MONEY.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 02:39 PM by James-F »
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Offline Jdurg

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 04:58 PM »
One also has to remember that the device linked to plays cartridges.  It is NOT an emulation station.  The problem with the FX and SA-1 chips are that they are on the cartridge and not in the actual SNES itself. 

So no, this announcement does NOT mean that the SA-1 chip is emulated/simulated on a chip like the SD2SNES.  It just means that if you plug an SA-1 cartridge into the device the FPGA will be able to communicate with the SA-1 chip just like a regular SNES would.


Offline dreimer

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 11:46 AM »
One also has to remember that the device linked to plays cartridges.  It is NOT an emulation station.  The problem with the FX and SA-1 chips are that they are on the cartridge and not in the actual SNES itself. 

So no, this announcement does NOT mean that the SA-1 chip is emulated/simulated on a chip like the SD2SNES.  It just means that if you plug an SA-1 cartridge into the device the FPGA will be able to communicate with the SA-1 chip just like a regular SNES would.

And you did not listen to me! Google what the SA-1 is and what it's 100% identical based on and tell me again that this is no interesting information!

Offline James-F

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 01:31 PM »
It is actually not a bad idea if ikari asks them for help, they might even agree for a small fee (probability aside).
Considering they already have the code for the main CPU, as dreimer said, SA-1 it's not far from the main CPU in terms of functionality.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 01:33 PM by James-F »
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Offline romevi

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 05:37 PM »
kevtris responded in the NA thread and said he used the SD2SNES extensively for research for this, and that all the FX chips work fine.
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Offline James-F

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 08:41 PM »
Interesting!

If a collaboration between the Supet-Nt devs and Ikari happens, that could indeed result in a SA-1 and SuperFX compatibility on the SD2SNES.... or a new SD2SNES revision with a different FPGA.

I surely hope the support for SA-1 and SuperFX will become a reality, while I'm still interested in the hobby.  :)
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Offline Greg2600

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2017, 09:33 PM »
kevtris responded in the NA thread and said he used the SD2SNES extensively for research for this, and that all the FX chips work fine.

Interesting, but the SD2SNES could simply have been used to load the games, with the NT's FPGA doing all the work.

Offline James-F

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 09:07 AM »
There is an even better option:

https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15143
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRVRcXRQkGA

jwdonal is at the verge of completing his VeriSNES implementation on a FPGA, he too uses SD2SNES for testing.
He is aware of the Super-Nt project but his approach is less commercial than Analogue company.

The love for SD2SNES is big, I am sure jwdonal gladly will help ikari implement SA-1 and SuperFX, I assume it would be simpler to program than a complete SNES-on-FPGA which is almost done.
Fingers crossed!
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Offline dreimer

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 02:26 PM »
Under one of his Bad Apple Demo vids he says that he is not sure if the sd2snes has enough space for a complete SA-1 emulation, but he wants to talk to ikari about it, so he already is thinking about it. ^^

Offline James-F

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 06:00 PM »
Here's his quote:
Quote
From what I know about the SD2SNES the FPGA is currently too small to fit an SA-1 enhancement chip. I'm not 100% certain about that though so don't quote me on it - I would ask ikari and see what he thinks. The main problem is that the 65816 processor is pretty huge. The SA-1 is a 65816 CPU + some other goodies.

It might be that Ikari already knows it is impossible to do on the current FPGA but keeps this shut from public to not lose current hardware SD2SNES sales.
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Offline Greg2600

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 08:40 PM »
The love for SD2SNES is big, I am sure jwdonal gladly will help ikari implement SA-1 and SuperFX, I assume it would be simpler to program than a complete SNES-on-FPGA which is almost done.
Fingers crossed!

To be honest, such a collaboration (at best) might only result in being able to run SA-1 games on the SD2SNES ONLY on the SuperNT.

It might be that Ikari already knows it is impossible to do on the current FPGA but keeps this shut from public to not lose current hardware SD2SNES sales.

Considering it's been YEARS without any realistic shot at SA-1 or SuperFX, why bother hiding anything? 

Offline dreimer

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Re: @ikari_01 and anyone interested: Super NT for SA-1 support
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 03:09 PM »
You forgot that ikari does not really get money for sold sd2snes. The whole layout is free to use