Author Topic: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming  (Read 307674 times)

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Offline brianvgplayer

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #705 on: September 11, 2018, 08:18 AM »
I finally got some FDS games to load on the model 2 NES in RC6, but they seem to have trouble loading. Some games like Ai Senshi Nicol and the JP version of 3D Worldrunner got stuck while loading. Before a reformat not using the stock windows manager, I got lock ups or loading errors and the games wouldn't load at all. No issues with FDS games on AVS or AV Famicom.

Offline phoenixdownita

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #706 on: September 11, 2018, 08:18 AM »
kevtris mentioned that while making the Nt Mini the N8 was a bitch to get to work.
Apparently it does things relatively late in the bus cycle and was barely within spec, so maybe in v20 the balance has been ever so slightly changed that it pushes the N8 in just about out-of-spec territory on some FC/NES variants.

This is purely speculation on my part, a faulty console sent to krikzz and a couple of days of oscilloscope based analysis may help shed a light.

Wrt the SD file system  I am under the impression Krikzz uses a homemade cut down implementation that is not fully compatible with the full FAT32 specs hence why defrag is an issue etc.. etc... but for the most part it works well enough that may not be worth of many changes.

Offline flex

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #707 on: September 11, 2018, 05:32 PM »
As mentioned in an earlier post my Everdrive N8 will not work at all on v20 on my PAL NES (Model NESE-001 GBR). It will get stuck on the OS init message initially or after a reset either a blank screen or "Error 62: Disk IO Error".

I have the Everdrive N8 Famicom model inserted via a Hyperkin 60-72 pin adapter and I am using a decent Sandisk Ultra 16GB Micro SD card which is being formatted with 32kb allocation unit size everytime. I even tried only copying the OS itself after a format and still get the same result!

This combination works flawlessly everytime when I try OS v16 though so clearly no hardware issues here.

When I use the Everdrive in my AV Famicom (Model HVC-101) it works for the most part expect there are a number of random IO errors and corrupt characters displayed on screen if I browse through the folders too quickly, it is like I have to wait a few seconds before attempting any operation. I am assuming the faster speed of the NTSC system is allowing it to actually work vs how it behaves on my PAL system but the timing must be really borderline.

All this talk about dirty contacts, voltage regulators etc is totally irrelevant IMO as it is clear that these issues do not exist under v16.  :o I do agree with some of the theories here that some timing changes have happened as it feels like the errors occur too quickly before the hardware has finished its processing / loading.

I have read a large number of posts from users here having exactly the same issues as me on true PAL hardware and it would appear things are also just as bad on the clone systems in PAL mode. Same goes for the menu issues on the AV Famicom so the results seem pretty consistent.

Also it is pretty clear from Mega Man 3 glitch that the MMC3 accuracy is greater in RC6 than RC7.

With the current issues I believe v20 RC7 to not be fit for a public release!  :( Which is a shame because everything else in RC6 seems pretty much spot on and it is what I am currently using on my AV Famicom despite the issues, It is just not working on my PAL system.

Hopefully Krikzz is reading all of this as he has only responded to some minor unrelated stuff while I would expect these particular issues to be taking priority!?

« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 05:50 PM by flex »

Offline brianvgplayer

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #708 on: September 11, 2018, 07:08 PM »
Krikzz, is Mapper 99 getting fixed in next update? I mentioned it a while ago (including in PM) and even uploaded Vs. Excitebike in a previous post, but heard no word on it.

Is there any way to make the OS more stable? OS seems to have a hard time loading on some systems, even after a reformat. The loading issues don't work well with FDS and causes games to either lock up at the FDS logo, to have an error right afterward or lock up at another point during loading if the title screen loads. NES model 2 is the only system where I had this issue, but I did have some menu weirdness with the AV Famicom where black squares or garbage briefly appeared in the menu.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 07:44 PM by brianvgplayer »

Offline Spoonman

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #709 on: September 12, 2018, 01:52 AM »
Probably a dumb question, but when upgrading from an older Everdrive N8 OS, to v20-rc7, do I keep the existing mapper files and copy the new files into the /MAPS folder?

Doing this would give me 32 RBF files instead of 16.

08/25/2018  01:50 AM            70,656 000.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            75,264 001.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            75,264 002.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            70,656 003.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            64,000 004.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            69,632 005.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            74,240 006.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            56,320 009.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            65,024 019.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            70,656 021.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            59,392 022.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            58,368 024.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            88,064 027.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            56,320 028.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            56,832 032.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            57,344 033.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            87,040 037.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            73,728 056.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            57,344 064.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            67,584 065.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            64,512 069.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            79,360 085.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            60,416 090.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            66,048 118.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            56,832 186.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            64,000 249.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            69,120 250.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            60,928 251.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            62,976 252.RBF
07/04/2017  11:36 AM            60,928 253.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            70,656 254.RBF
08/25/2018  01:50 AM            58,368 255.RBF

Also, should I have RBF files for each supported mapper, or do they support multiple mappers per RBF file.
I'm not really familiar with the whole mapper system on these carts.
Thanks

Offline brianvgplayer

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #710 on: September 12, 2018, 03:11 AM »
Don't bother keeping the old files, it's recommend to delete the EDFC folder and replace it.

Offline Arnold101

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #711 on: September 12, 2018, 04:33 AM »
My guess is that dropping the resistance value (mine is 47K, for instance) would amplify the expansion audio signal, which is why having a potentiometer would both allow you to increase the volume of the expansion audio, as well as balance it as needed depending on the source (real cart or EDN8).  If I'm not mistaken, a real Famicom uses somewhere in the range of a 100K resistor.  Dropping that value should give a louder signal, at the expense of having real expansion audio carts sounding too loud (which is why a pot is a better choice if you're dealing with multiple sources).

See this topic:  https://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=692.0
can you show a photo of where is located the resistance that control chip audio? thanks

you have installed a pot or not?

Offline Arnold101

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #712 on: September 12, 2018, 04:39 AM »
@oilvil
You are confusing the feedback resistor in the output amplifier every famicom has we are talking about, with the NES expansion audio mod, two completely different things.

@Sarge
Yes, 47k is what a HVC-GPM-02 has, 100k on the HVC-CPU-01 to -08.
Arnold101 is wrong about the noise floor, since the output amplifier is the last in the audio chain thus will lower the noise along with the audio.
Putting a pot instead the 100k will indeed have the desired effect.
i want to install the pot. is 100k i need? can you show wich resistor is on the famicom pcb?



Famicom stock channels get mixed through resistors, then go to an inverter gate with a feedback resistor (R7) that acts like an amp. It then goes to pin 45. If the game has stock audio there's a bridge that goes to pin 46, if not it's mixed to extra channels in the cart then goes to pin 46, and from there it goes to the RF unit.

100k is the original value, later revisions changed the value.

Lowering R7 lowers the stock channels volume.
Note that you can't apply that as-is to AVFamicom (for extra channels mixing) because the inverter in it has lower voltage maximum.
SO...the resistor is NOT for chip audio but for stock channels? So nothing here can boost the chip sound.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 04:44 AM by Arnold101 »

Offline Spoonman

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #713 on: September 12, 2018, 05:50 AM »
Don't bother keeping the old files, it's recommend to delete the EDFC folder and replace it.

OK, thanks.

Offline Sarge

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #714 on: September 12, 2018, 07:07 PM »
Okay, so apparently the expansion audio mod for the NES, and the Famicom mod necessary would be two different things.  I've done the former, not the latter.

It sounds like for the NES, you would want to reduce the resistor value, which would increase the volume of the expansion channel.

For the Famicom, if R7 controls the stock audio channels (but not the expansion), then the solution is instead to lower the stock channels audio level to that of the expansion cart.  Then you can just increase the volume on your TV.

Someone correct me if I've got this wrong here.  I'm also not sure which direction does the lowering on a Famicom system (increased or decreased resistance).
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Offline PalAndreew

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #715 on: September 12, 2018, 08:02 PM »
Okay, so apparently the expansion audio mod for the NES, and the Famicom mod necessary would be two different things.  I've done the former, not the latter.

It sounds like for the NES, you would want to reduce the resistor value, which would increase the volume of the expansion channel.

For the Famicom, if R7 controls the stock audio channels (but not the expansion), then the solution is instead to lower the stock channels audio level to that of the expansion cart.  Then you can just increase the volume on your TV.

Someone correct me if I've got this wrong here.  I'm also not sure which direction does the lowering on a Famicom system (increased or decreased resistance).

a decrease in the resistor value = a large amplitude and current = that is, a louder sound.
 but alas: reducing the volume of Apu (five-channel sound of the processor) - and forcibly increasing the volume on TV - can increase the unpleasant background at a frequency of 50Hz (buzzing), from which there is no cure ...

I repeatedly tried. no pleasure ... if physically - your console very weakly transmits the sounds of additional. extension - look for the revision of the console - for example, 1989, HVC - CPU-GPM-02 ... usually the case is yellow, and ahead on the red strip - the sign I: I: (FF, famicom family) ... it costs, most often, is cheaper on eBay than older samples. the current firmware is excellent, even steeper than emulators - it reproduces the music of Gimmick!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 08:15 PM by PalAndreew »

Offline James-F

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #716 on: September 12, 2018, 08:58 PM »
For the Famicom, if R7 controls the stock audio channels (but not the expansion), then the solution is instead to lower the stock channels audio level to that of the expansion cart.  Then you can just increase the volume on your TV.
That's correct.

Someone correct me if I've got this wrong here.  I'm also not sure which direction does the lowering on a Famicom system (increased or decreased resistance).
Lower R7 resistor will produce quieter internal audio only.
R7 is a negative feedback resistor in an op-amp loop.
Older Famicoms (HVC-CPU-01 to 08) have 100k resistor that produces louder internal audio, while GPM-01 and 02 produce quieter internal audio with 43k resistor.
All expansion audio games including the newer Gimmick! and Just breed were designed on the older Famicom with 100k resistor.

* Please don't quote this post.


« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 09:24 PM by James-F »
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Offline Arnold101

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #717 on: September 13, 2018, 03:33 AM »
Okay, so apparently the expansion audio mod for the NES, and the Famicom mod necessary would be two different things.  I've done the former, not the latter.

It sounds like for the NES, you would want to reduce the resistor value, which would increase the volume of the expansion channel.

For the Famicom, if R7 controls the stock audio channels (but not the expansion), then the solution is instead to lower the stock channels audio level to that of the expansion cart.  Then you can just increase the volume on your TV.

Someone correct me if I've got this wrong here.  I'm also not sure which direction does the lowering on a Famicom system (increased or decreased resistance).

a decrease in the resistor value = a large amplitude and current = that is, a louder sound.
 but alas: reducing the volume of Apu (five-channel sound of the processor) - and forcibly increasing the volume on TV - can increase the unpleasant background at a frequency of 50Hz (buzzing), from which there is no cure ...

THIS.


lowering the apu sound is USELESS. You got only a low famicom volume, forcing you tu increase volume on tv and hear a lot of interference/noise sound in the tv because input sound is too much low.

apu sound is on the ideal value, everdrive chip sound NOT.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 03:34 AM by Arnold101 »

Offline James-F

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #718 on: September 13, 2018, 08:18 AM »
Quote from: Arnold101
apu sound is on the ideal value, everdrive chip sound NOT.

Very very Wrong.

The original famicom (and AV Famicom) audio output is out of consumer audio specifications which is 0.447vAC peak.
Nintendo tried to fixed that in GPM-0x (FF) original famicoms once the new consumer VCCI (FCC equivalent) standard was declared and lowered the resistor to 43k to lower the overall volume to be in spec, but still is too loud and out of specification with the lower resistor value.
The AV Famicom is also loud and out of consumer audio specification.
Any modern DVD/BluRay player will have much lower audio output compared to the AV Famicom and obviously the original Famicom.

Now that you are properly informed Arnold101, how about suggesting a solution instead of complaining that everything is not to your liking?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 08:46 AM by James-F »
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Offline Arnold101

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Re: EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming
« Reply #719 on: September 13, 2018, 01:57 PM »
james i'm not the only one that say the everdrive chip sound is too much low on famicom.
Famicom have low chip sound when using original carts? NO. So is not the famicom the culprit here. I have a fantastic sound when using my famicom, instead very very low when using the everdrive exp chips. Everyone knows that you are a fanboy of everdrives and sd2snes so you never talk bad about these, but i'm not like you. Also i haven't a av famicom like you so i can use that to fix all my problems. You can't understand so. 

Everdrive chip sound is low and that is a FACT on the famicom.


PS. also what you quoted of all my post? only where i talk bad of the everdrive....no words.

Let's add it again: lowering the apu sound is USELESS. You got only a low famicom volume, forcing you tu increase volume on tv and hear a lot of interference/noise sound in the tv because input sound is too much low.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 01:58 PM by Arnold101 »