EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming

[brianvgplayer]

Doh. Didn't even think of using the RCA cable. Here is a recording using a RCA cable.

[James-F]

This recording is completely distorted.
Lower the line-in input gain on your computer to not distort.

Audacity is a free recording software that many people use:
https://www.audacityteam.org/
Here your input level should never reach the red line.

Lets move to this thread and I will help you fine tune the ext volume on the AVS to sound accurate with the N8.
http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=3391.30

EDIT:
I have uploaded my AV Famicom recording with Slamy's VRC6 mapper on N8 v20-beta2, on the linked thread.

[James-F]

Question.

Does the internal audio quieter on the AV Famicom with the original Akumajo Densetsu cart, than Mario for example?
I want to know whether the mixing circuitry inside the original cart attenuates the Famicom output in comparison to other games.

Also, how does the N8 mix Pin45 and mapper together?
Is there any attenuation in the way?

[polyh3dron]

James I'm not sure if I'm understanding your post correctly since English does not seem to be your first language, but the audio from Akumajou Densetsu while playing the actual cart is the same volume as any other game. It's only quieter when you're playing it with the N8.

BTW Krikzz, I'm happy that you've made some progress with the FDS audio, but it still has pitch issues. I'm aware that the FDS audio is inherently ever so slightly out of tune compared to the regular Famicom audio in a real FDS setup, but when you play VS Excitebike, for example, you'll begin to notice that the higher the note, the more out of tune it is. It's like for every incrementally higher note, the pitch issue gets increasingly worse. It's not how the FDS audio actually behaves at all.

I'll probably just end up getting a FDS Stick haha.

[James-F]

..the audio from Akumajou Densetsu while playing the actual cart is the same volume as any other game. It's only quieter when you're playing it with the N8.

Excellent, exactly what I wanted to know.
That means Krikzz can make things a LOT better since the issue is only with the N8.

I have done some measurements with my AV Famicom to boost its internal audio, but apparently the AV Famicom is not much quieter than the OG Famicom, only 1db difference, and the original Fami is CLIPPING the signal before it even reaches the cartridge.
http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=3391.msg60125#msg60125

[KRIKzz]

i will keep working over fds, but final v20 release probably will contain current core. I thinking about making special menu with dedicated audio gain settings for each audio mapper, this is probably the only right solution.

thanks for the update Krikzz.
 the info for beta 2 states that death race is fixed (assigned mapper 144). the ines mapper info for the rom says it's mapper 11. does the beta 2 release info mean i will need to change the death race rom header to use mapper 144 for it to work properly?
 i would just test it to find out but my retro consoles are packed away since we are planning an house move soon.
 full mapper 5 support sounds great. are all mapper 5 games now working fine?

You don't need to do anything, OS will detects right mapper number automatically. Just run the game and all will work as it should be

[James-F]

I thinking about making special menu with dedicated audio gain settings for each audio mapper, this is probably the only right solution.

That would be ideal, but how are you going to do that with only 80 bytes of free memory?

[fandangos]

Credits where credits are due! You are amazing, Krikzz!

Thank you so much for this!

Now we need an updated compatibility list from SkinnyV
http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=340.0

[KRIKzz]

I thinking about making special menu with dedicated audio gain settings for each audio mapper, this is probably the only right solution.

That would be ideal, but how are you going to do that with only 80 bytes of free memory?

I looking for some solution without global OS rewriting

[Arnold101]

i will keep working over fds, but final v20 release probably will contain current core. I thinking about making special menu with dedicated audio gain settings for each audio mapper, this is probably the only right solution.

thanks for the update Krikzz.
 the info for beta 2 states that death race is fixed (assigned mapper 144). the ines mapper info for the rom says it's mapper 11. does the beta 2 release info mean i will need to change the death race rom header to use mapper 144 for it to work properly?
 i would just test it to find out but my retro consoles are packed away since we are planning an house move soon.
 full mapper 5 support sounds great. are all mapper 5 games now working fine?

You don't need to do anything, OS will detects right mapper number automatically. Just run the game and all will work as it should be

this is perfect thanks!

zelda fds intro sound is totally out of tune, instead sword sound is much better now.

[James-F]

I looking for some solution without global OS rewriting

One option is to provide 20 RBF files (5, 10, 15, 20 ,...100 volume) for each Mapper so users can tune the correct gain for their console, this is what Slamy did with VRC6.
That would be 100 files for 5 mappers.
A better solution would be to provide 20 RBF files per external mapper to few testers and choose only 2 RBF files that match the Original Cartridge and AV Famicom.

Or you can just provide 20 volume files per mapper and let the community have fun, with absolutely no arguments or complaining, where everybody's right according to his own taste.

[Blitzed78]

What about a .ini file or something that can be edited separately to adjust sound lvls.  Would that be something that still wouldn’t work with the limitations of 80kb?  I’m no programmer,  just shooting out an idea..  thanks

[James-F]

It's 80 bytes which is no more than a few letters in a text file.

But yeah, a separate mapper/router file for the volume files is not a bad idea at all.
The SD card is big enough to hold all the volume mappers one needs and more.

[KRIKzz]

It's 80 bytes which is no more than a few letters in a text file.

But yeah, a separate mapper/router file for the volume files is not a bad idea at all.
The SD card is big enough to hold all the volume mappers one needs and more.

This problem not about storing volume levels somewhere, this problem about lack of space for  program code, which will handle this feature.

[fernan1234]

I can clearly understand why the developers chose to use the AV Famicom as reference and not the original Famicom.
The AV Famicom internal audio is actually much cleaner than the OG Famicom, the OG Famicom has some distortion hence compression, some filtering AND it all goes through the RF modulator.
The AV Famicom on the other hand is not distorting internally, does not have added filtering, does not go through an rf modulator, AND has very convenient rca connections.

But, the general audible balance between internal av famicom and external n8 mapper were compared to the original game on the original famicom.

There's actually variation across different original Famicom (as well as Twin Famicom) motherboard revisions in terms of expanded audio, and balance in particular. This video has comparisons:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16346242

The conclusion in the comments in that video is that some earlier and some older original Famicom board revisions have the best sound and balance, even above the AV Famicom.

Regarding the filters and "distortion" in the original Famicom sound, I would make a case for it being designed into the console for a reason. This is subjective, but when I listen to the sound on the AV Famicom it generally sounds too metallic and harsh compared to the original Famicom.

It is for this reason that I play on an AV-modded Famicom or a Famicom with NESRGB rather than my AV Famicom. This also meant that I still have to use original carts with expanded audio rather than the N8, since the available mappers as mentioned have been balanced only for AV Famicom.

I support those suggestions for having options in the OS, or multiple versions of the OS to cover users who prefer the sound (and other features) of the original Famicom.