EDN8 OS v20-BETA. Large update incoming

[leonquest]

The new N8 model is being made because the FPGA on the current one has reach end of life, same as with the SD2Snes, and also with the mega everdrive X7. Anything else being said on this thread is an assumption.

That being said, Krikzz has a history of dropping support for discontinued products, so my vote is on open sourcing the firmware.

End of life? Are all of old Flash Carts going to die soon? Or because the sales have slowed down. Still doesn't explain why the N8 firmware can't be fixed. But yes please open source it so the thing is at least usable....

You sound like a non-technical person so I will correct you in order to avoid derailing the conversation further with misinformation.

1- Everdrives aren't "dying", their main component, the FPGA, has a commercial lifecycle like any other product out there, ergo in order to continue producing everdrives, Krikzz has to use a newer FPGA models and rebrand the new everdrive (to advertise the new capacity). He will usually sell it at the same price as the older model as the cost of the new FPGA will typically be the same. This has 2 side effects: more FPGA power meaning more possibilities, and porting the code to a different brand FPGA means Krikzz may choose to discontinue support on the older one to avoid doing double code for each and every everdrive (imagine the nightmare, he's a one man army for all of the everdrives)

2 - No one said the N8's firmware "can't be fixed", who told you that? did Krikzz mention this at some point? AFAIK Krikzz simply does not have enough time to dedicate to coding the N8 and he's already spent a ton of time on v20, plus he's running a business so he needs to go where the money goes. At this point his best options would be a) hire a full time programmer to perfect very everdrive needing work, or b) open source at least the N8 to have the community help perfect it, as it happened with the SD2Snes

[nastc1]

The new N8 model is being made because the FPGA on the current one has reach end of life, same as with the SD2Snes, and also with the mega everdrive X7. Anything else being said on this thread is an assumption.

That being said, Krikzz has a history of dropping support for discontinued products, so my vote is on open sourcing the firmware.

End of life? Are all of old Flash Carts going to die soon? Or because the sales have slowed down. Still doesn't explain why the N8 firmware can't be fixed. But yes please open source it so the thing is at least usable....

You sound like a non-technical person so I will correct you in order to avoid derailing the conversation further with misinformation.

1- Everdrives aren't "dying", their main component, the FPGA, has a commercial lifecycle like any other product out there, ergo in order to continue producing everdrives, Krikzz has to use a newer FPGA models and rebrand the new everdrive (to advertise the new capacity). He will usually sell it at the same price as the older model as the cost of the new FPGA will typically be the same. This has 2 side effects: more FPGA power meaning more possibilities, and porting the code to a different brand FPGA means Krikzz may choose to discontinue support on the older one to avoid doing double code for each and every everdrive (imagine the nightmare, he's a one man army for all of the everdrives)

2 - No one said the N8's firmware "can't be fixed", who told you that? did Krikzz mention this at some point? AFAIK Krikzz simply does not have enough time to dedicate to coding the N8 and he's already spent a ton of time on v20, plus he's running a business so he needs to go where the money goes. At this point his best options would be a) hire a full time programmer to perfect very everdrive needing work, or b) open source at least the N8 to have the community help perfect it, as it happened with the SD2Snes

I'm more technically inclined than you think, I was being sarcastic for that message. I'm criticizing the sudden stoppage of support for the N8. Fix the firmware then work on the next!

[leonquest]

I'm more technically inclined than you think, I was being sarcastic for that message. I'm criticizing the sudden stoppage of support for the N8. Fix the firmware then work on the next!

language barrier then.

I understand why you'd be frustrated but krikzz has a business to run, and in order to keep selling N8s, he needs to migrate to a new FPGA model, not sure why this is so hard to understand as this is a completely different topic to the firmware. It would be great if the firmware waas fixed, but it wouldn't be realistic to expect of Krikzz to fix it any time soon, not while he's trying to launch 2 different products and add mega cd support to the new megaed model in order to keep up with the competition.

I must insist once more, open source is what we should all suggest to krikzz.

[nastc1]

I'm more technically inclined than you think, I was being sarcastic for that message. I'm criticizing the sudden stoppage of support for the N8. Fix the firmware then work on the next!

language barrier then.

I understand why you'd be frustrated but krikzz has a business to run, and in order to keep selling N8s, he needs to migrate to a new FPGA model, not sure why this is so hard to understand as this is a completely different topic to the firmware. It would be great if the firmware waas fixed, but it wouldn't be realistic to expect of Krikzz to fix it any time soon, not while he's trying to launch 2 different products and add mega cd support to the new megaed model in order to keep up with the competition.

I must insist once more, open source is what we should all suggest to krikzz.

The only issue is, if he makes it open source. Would it reveal programming secrets he wouldn't want competitors to have?

[leonquest]

I'm more technically inclined than you think, I was being sarcastic for that message. I'm criticizing the sudden stoppage of support for the N8. Fix the firmware then work on the next!

language barrier then.

I understand why you'd be frustrated but krikzz has a business to run, and in order to keep selling N8s, he needs to migrate to a new FPGA model, not sure why this is so hard to understand as this is a completely different topic to the firmware. It would be great if the firmware waas fixed, but it wouldn't be realistic to expect of Krikzz to fix it any time soon, not while he's trying to launch 2 different products and add mega cd support to the new megaed model in order to keep up with the competition.

I must insist once more, open source is what we should all suggest to krikzz.

The only issue is, if he makes it open source. Would it reveal programming secrets he wouldn't want competitors to have?

Which competitors would that be? The chinese have been cloning him for years with crappy parts and no support, and retroUSB likely has no interest in using Krikzz's code. We buy from Krikzz because of the quality and support of his products basically.

The SD2snes has been going strong for many years even though it's 100% open source. Besides we are only making this suggestion as Krikzz is already moving on to a new model and may not have the time to continue working on the N8.

Ikari also had issues finding the time to work on the SD2Snes, so the community lent a helping hand and we can now enjoy SA1, SFX and SDD-1 thanks to their efforts. This also guarantees that N8 users will continue to enjoy new upgrades far beyond the product's life cycle.

[nastc1]

I'm more technically inclined than you think, I was being sarcastic for that message. I'm criticizing the sudden stoppage of support for the N8. Fix the firmware then work on the next!

language barrier then.

I understand why you'd be frustrated but krikzz has a business to run, and in order to keep selling N8s, he needs to migrate to a new FPGA model, not sure why this is so hard to understand as this is a completely different topic to the firmware. It would be great if the firmware waas fixed, but it wouldn't be realistic to expect of Krikzz to fix it any time soon, not while he's trying to launch 2 different products and add mega cd support to the new megaed model in order to keep up with the competition.

I must insist once more, open source is what we should all suggest to krikzz.

The only issue is, if he makes it open source. Would it reveal programming secrets he wouldn't want competitors to have?

Which competitors would that be? The chinese have been cloning him for years with crappy parts and no support, and retroUSB likely has no interest in using Krikzz's code. We buy from Krikzz because of the quality and support of his products basically.

The SD2snes has been going strong for many years even though it's 100% open source. Besides we are only making this suggestion as Krikzz is already moving on to a new model and may not have the time to continue working on the N8.

Ikari also had issues finding the time to work on the SD2Snes, so the community lent a helping hand and we can now enjoy SA1, SFX and SDD-1 thanks to their efforts. This also guarantees that N8 users will continue to enjoy new upgrades far beyond the product's life cycle.

There's more people than Krikzz, RetroUSB and Ikari making flash carts. Terra Onion is another for example. It's just a thought though, some programmers don't like sharing their code. If he wants it to be open source, i'll be all for it.

[leonquest]

There's more people than Krikzz, RetroUSB and Ikari making flash carts. Terra Onion is another for example. It's just a thought though, some programmers don't like sharing their code. If he wants it to be open source, i'll be all for it.

TerraOnion has an NES flashcart? News to me.

We're just saying though, instead of abandoning old N8 users (if he does decide to) might as well open the source code.

[butfluffy]

right guys i've been waiting for a fixed v20 firmware before even updating so if we are stuck with v20 never getting a final release then which is the most stable v20 version?
 if i remember right v7 has issues with mmc3 timings and v6 has some issues also.
 i'm not as bothered about FDS audio as a lot of other users. i'm more concerned with overall game compatibility.
 i would stick with v16 but v20 has full mmc5 mapper support so the most stable v20 beta with no previously working games broken is what i want to use.
 it really is a shame if krikzz is not going to fix the bugs introduced with the later v20 beta versions before ending support for the original n8.
 just a stable final v20 revision which fixes any bugs introduced with games before putting the old n8 fw to bed would be great and i'm sure make a lot of people happy.
 i did not complain when support for the old mega everdrive fw ended because the latest version fw i have installed is very good and i have no issues. the same can't be said for the latest v20 betas.
 so which v20 beta version is best guys?
 

[leonquest]

right guys i've been waiting for a fixed v20 firmware before even updating so if we are stuck with v20 never getting a final release then which is the most stable v20 version?
 if i remember right v7 has issues with mmc3 timings and v6 has some issues also.
 i'm not as bothered about FDS audio as a lot of other users. i'm more concerned with overall game compatibility.
 i would stick with v16 but v20 has full mmc5 mapper support so the most stable v20 beta with no previously working games broken is what i want to use.
 it really is a shame if krikzz is not going to fix the bugs introduced with the later v20 beta versions before ending support for the original n8.
 just a stable final v20 revision which fixes any bugs introduced with games before putting the old n8 fw to bed would be great and i'm sure make a lot of people happy.
 i did not complain when support for the old mega everdrive fw ended because the latest version fw i have installed is very good and i have no issues. the same can't be said for the latest v20 betas.
 so which v20 beta version is best guys?

V3 according to sarge, if you are using original hardware.

[nastc1]

There's more people than Krikzz, RetroUSB and Ikari making flash carts. Terra Onion is another for example. It's just a thought though, some programmers don't like sharing their code. If he wants it to be open source, i'll be all for it.

TerraOnion has an NES flashcart? News to me.

We're just saying though, instead of abandoning old N8 users (if he does decide to) might as well open the source code.

Is it an impossible concept that they could make an NES flash cart some day??? There's still isn't a perfect NES cart on the market. Throwing that out there.

[brianvgplayer]

RC4 seems fine for me on AV famicom, though RC6 seemed ok too. I don't have a NES one to try and I plan to wait for the new Everdrive N8 since the FC version seems to have issues with the FC to NES adapters. Earlier firmwares were ok with the adapter, though.

Frustrating that some things that worked in previous OS won't be fixed. Too bad there isn't a database specifically for bug reports. Too many things get lost or confused in forum posts.

V16 wasn't perfect either, though. It still has those artifacts when used on some systems. I'm glad os20 exists at all, especially with MMC5 support and much better FDS sound.

[butfluffy]

yeah it's mmc5 support which makes me want to use v20 over v16.
 i think rc3 version is before mmc3 tweeks broke mmc3 games for some people and it has mmc1 fixed so maybe it is the most stable.
 does anyone know if rc3 release has specific broken games which were working on v16 or on previous os releases?
 if rc3 does break any games then it may be a case of using 2 sd cards, one for v16 and one for v20 rc3.
 i would invest in n8 pro version but not right away like i have with other everdrives in the past. the original n8 does a pretty good job if using a stable os version and i would keep an eye on n8 pro progress to see just how well the os gets perfected.
 i don't know if there is really any legit reason for not supporting the old n8 with stable os update(s). it does seem like a kick in the teeth after waiting for so long for possible mmc5 support that when mmc5 support arrived the old n8 gets dropped and we may never get a stable up to date os.
 can anyone be sure that the issues with the original n8 can't be resolved with the original n8 fpga and hardware?
 i think mainly what users would like is for things working previously to be fixed along with the new v20 added mappers and good tweaks.

[Sarge]

Try RC6 first.  My systems might be a weird edge case, considering I have two that goof up, and one that doesn't. Drop to RC4 if that doesn't work, and if not that, RC3.

If you want a few test cases, try out Ultima: Quest of the Avatar and Batman.  On RC6, the naming screen will break up on a couple of my systems.  On RC4 (and maybe RC6), Batman will generally freeze up during the first stage, and usually pretty quickly.  It will show signs of crapping out, with some glitching/flickering visuals, every now and then.

[Kerr Avon]

I would *love* for Krikzz to let his various OSes be open sourced. Probably the only thing at the moment that would interest me enough to get me back to programming. At the moment he has passed his Everdrive 64 OS source code to one person, but he won't allow that person to distribute the source code.

I don't know what Krikzz's source code is like. Hopefully it's clear and easy to follow, with lots of comments especially in regard to the calls to the Everdrive's hardware (since none of us will be familiar with those, at least not to begin with), and since he does seem methodical, then hopefully that is the case. Though if he comments in his native language rather than English, that will be a problem for many of us, including me.

[keeper7]

Krikzz I hope you reading this.
I have EDN8 for about a year only and it's a real bummer that you don't have enough space to fix the OS rc20 so I have a suggestion.
Could you split the new OS in two parts, one for "normal" games and one for "special audio" games?
Of course we'll need to swap between two SD cards to use EDN8 but is better than getting errors from time to time.