Author Topic: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering  (Read 5735 times)

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Offline the_randomizer

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Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« on: October 13, 2018, 05:54 AM »
So this is an odd issue, see, I'm using the re-translated version of Breath of Fire 2 (let's be honest, the original version is a garbage heap in the translation department, and the new HUD looks pretty sleek), the issue is that the top line of the HUD is half missing, and the half that does remain, flickers constantly in battle. I don't know exactly what the ROM patch does to the game, or how it affects how the resolution is affected, maybe it's some kine of pseudo hi-res going on, not sure. But it's quite distracting, and looks quite abnormal.


Firmware: 1.8.0 sa1 revision 6 beta
Super NT: firmware version 4.5

Earlier versions of the SD2SNES firmware yield the same results.

Normally, there should be a black line going across the entire HUD, but it's missing about half of it. I highlighted the problem in the attached image:



I can't seem to reproduce this on Snes9x 1.55, which is aimed at fairly high accuracy, so I'm not sure what's going on. Any insight is appreciated, thank you.

Edit: I stand corrected, that black line isn't supposed to be there at all, running it on Snes9x 1.55 and well, it's supposed to look like this:



Either way, something is amiss and I hope it's not a serious issue, but again, it is distracting on the screen.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 06:03 AM by the_randomizer »

Offline lee4

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 11:13 AM »
try turn off the hook
to see glitch goes away
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Offline the_randomizer

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 05:16 PM »
try turn off the hook
to see glitch goes away

Game hooks are not enabled, as far as I know (I thought?) I'll double check, can you reproduce this on your end? I know my ROM is a clean image, and like I said, it doesn't  happen on emulators, so this is as close as I can get to real hardware (since FPGA is hardware simulation).

Specifically the Breath of Fire 2 NTSC ROM with the Ryusui re-translation patch.

And if it turns out that in-game hooks are off, what do we do from here?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 05:32 PM by the_randomizer »

Offline Dup84

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 06:41 PM »
Got same bug on my original Super Nintendo console, via S-Video,same firmware. It's not your SuperNT
Used the same patch with the GoodSnes release of the rom.

The patch is great, will have to play the game now! :)

Offline the_randomizer

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2018, 06:45 PM »
Got same bug on my original Super Nintendo console, via S-Video,same firmware. It's not your SuperNT
Used the same patch with the GoodSnes release of the rom.

The patch is great, will have to play the game now! :)

Damn, so what can I do? Why doesn't it show up on Higan or Snes9x? Aren't those like, supposed to be super-accurate? *Sigh* I'm just wasting
your guy's time, I'm sorry. It's just really distracting and I'm afraid of it causing something to damage the screen I use and/or headaches. It's hard NOT to look at, you know? What else can I try?
 :-\

Offline ReddestDream

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2018, 07:43 PM »
That is weird. Based on the Readme for this retranslation, it looks like it was tested on real hardware:

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/1384/

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/snes/patches/1384readme.txt

Make sure you have the newest version of the patch, though I presume you do.

If you can't reproduce the issues on the latest version of higan, it's possible it's an SD2SNES issue, but that seems strange since AFAIK BoFII doesn't have any custom chips or anything . . .

Edit: I forgot. You have a Super NT, the_randomizer. Have you tried loading this game directly using the jailbreak firmware instead of using the SD2SNES?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 07:47 PM by ReddestDream »

Offline the_randomizer

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2018, 08:19 PM »
That is weird. Based on the Readme for this retranslation, it looks like it was tested on real hardware:

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/1384/

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/snes/patches/1384readme.txt

Make sure you have the newest version of the patch, though I presume you do.

If you can't reproduce the issues on the latest version of higan, it's possible it's an SD2SNES issue, but that seems strange since AFAIK BoFII doesn't have any custom chips or anything . . .

Edit: I forgot. You have a Super NT, the_randomizer. Have you tried loading this game directly using the jailbreak firmware instead of using the SD2SNES?

It's possible I don't have the bleeding edge version of the ROM hack, but I don't know for sure, and using a real Snes isn't an option, because A, I don't have an AC adapter and B, because I've no way to hook it up to any other displays. I sure don't have money for an SCC or Framemeister. Super NT has literally no other issues for every other game I play on the SD2SNES, every game I've tested runs 100% perfectly as far as I can tell; it's a very baffling issue, but maybe it's the way the the HUD is being displayed, using some weird Mode 1-7? I've no way to ask how the original translator did it, since he's near-impossible to get a hold of.

I'd rather not try jailbreak firmware, but it's the only way I can know for sure, and if it turns out the SD2SNES causes it, but jailbreak doesn't, where do we go from there? Is there a GitHub where I can report this on or am I SOL? I'll be back later with the test results.

Are you able to reproduce it at all? It's weird because on Snes9x 1.55.2, there's no black line at all, but it's consistent and not flickering; IIRC, Snes9x uses very little hacks, if any at all in favor of more accuracy.  I'll try Higan again.

Offline ReddestDream

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2018, 08:26 PM »
Quote
It's possible I don't have the bleeding edge version of the ROM hack, but I don't know for sure, and using a real Snes isn't an option, because A, I don't have an AC adapter and B, because I've no way to hook it up to any other displays. I sure don't have money for an SCC or Framemeister. Super NT has literally no other issues for every other game I play on the SD2SNES, every game I've tested runs 100% perfectly as far as I can tell; it's a very baffling issue, but maybe it's the way the the HUD is being displayed, using some weird Mode 1-7? I've no way to ask how the original translator did it, since he's near-impossible to get a hold of.

I don't think it's your NT. Someone else on this thread already confirmed the issue on a real SNES anyway. It's either the game or the SD2SNES IMO.

Also, I linked to the Romhacking.net page where the patch is hosted. Says the latest version is 1.2b. You can try repatching with the patch there and see if you get the same checksum.

Quote
I'd rather not try jailbreak firmware, but it's the only way I can know for sure, and if it turns out the SD2SNES causes it, but jailbreak doesn't, where do we go from there? Is there a GitHub where I can report this on or am I SOL? I'll be back later with the test results.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that testing with the jailbreak firmware is the only way we are going to know. If it turns out it works as expected on the jailbreak firmware, you could post an issue here:

https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes

Quote
Are you able to reproduce it at all? It's weird because on Snes9x 1.55.2, there's no black line at all, but it's consistent and not flickering; IIRC, Snes9x uses very little hacks, if any at all in favor of more accuracy.  I'll try Higan again.

I have a real SNES and a Rev. H SD2SNES. But not sure there's much point in me testing at this point. What we really need to do is rule out the SD2SNES as the cause. And unfortunately, I can't think of any other way other than using Super NT's jailbreak firmware. That should support BoFII since it doesn't have custom chips. If it works fine that way, then I'll check on my Real hardware 2/1/3 SNES + SD2SNES for more confirmation and to make sure it's not some revision thing.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:31 PM by ReddestDream »

Offline the_randomizer

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2018, 08:32 PM »
Quote
It's possible I don't have the bleeding edge version of the ROM hack, but I don't know for sure, and using a real Snes isn't an option, because A, I don't have an AC adapter and B, because I've no way to hook it up to any other displays. I sure don't have money for an SCC or Framemeister. Super NT has literally no other issues for every other game I play on the SD2SNES, every game I've tested runs 100% perfectly as far as I can tell; it's a very baffling issue, but maybe it's the way the the HUD is being displayed, using some weird Mode 1-7? I've no way to ask how the original translator did it, since he's near-impossible to get a hold of.

I don't think it's your NT. Someone else on this thread already confirmed the issue on a real SNES anyway. It's either the game or the SD2SNES IMO.

Also, I linked to the Romhacking.net page where the patch is hosted. Says the latest version is 1.2b. You can try repatching with the patch there and see if you get the same checksum.

Quote
I'd rather not try jailbreak firmware, but it's the only way I can know for sure, and if it turns out the SD2SNES causes it, but jailbreak doesn't, where do we go from there? Is there a GitHub where I can report this on or am I SOL? I'll be back later with the test results.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that testing with the jailbreak firmware is the only way we are going to know. If it turns out it works as expected on the jailbreak firmware, you could post an issue here:

https://github.com/mrehkopf/sd2snes


Okay so I ran into something pretty interesting with Higan Accuracy (which is horrible in the performance dept, but useful for testing something like this), and oddly enough, I got the exact same 1:1 result on there, same partial black line with most of it missing and the flickering, too, never thought I'd be able to reproduce it on there, so yeah, it's definitely not my Super NT, maybe it's how it acts on certain Snes models?



Same location, I'm thinking that the black line is supposed to cover the entire HUD, but instead on both Super NT and Higan Accuracy, I got the exact same results, same flickering behavior where that black line begins. At this point, I don't even know if this can be fixed, or if it's even worth having the devs look into it, I fear it would be a huge waste of time. *sigh* I was afraid of this  :(

Edit: It's fairly easy to download and install the jailbreak firmware, run the game, and then put it back to vanilla 4.5, yes?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:34 PM by the_randomizer »

Offline ReddestDream

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2018, 08:45 PM »
Quote
Okay so I ran into something pretty interesting with Higan Accuracy (which is horrible in the performance dept, but useful for testing something like this), and oddly enough, I got the exact same 1:1 result on there, same partial black line with most of it missing and the flickering, too, never thought I'd be able to reproduce it on there, so yeah, it's definitely not my Super NT, maybe it's how it acts on certain Snes models?

Higan and the Super NT are based on the 2/1/3 2-chip SNES, which is also the most common type and also what mine is (SNS-CPU-GPM-02, specifically) and probably what Dup84 has.

So, if Higan reproduces this issue, it's not the SD2SNES. It's normal SNES behavior. It's a bug in the hack translation, and it needs to be fixed by the author of the patch. That's still kinda odd since it was apparently tested on real hardware.

Just to confirm, when I patch the ROM, I get an internal checksum of 0xa83d and a file checksum of 0x1320298e for the unheadered patched ROM.

Quote
Same location, I'm thinking that the black line is supposed to cover the entire HUD, but instead on both Super NT and Higan Accuracy, I got the exact same results, same flickering behavior where that black line begins. At this point, I don't even know if this can be fixed, or if it's even worth having the devs look into it, I fear it would be a huge waste of time. *sigh* I was afraid of this  :(

Based on the screenshots on Romhacking.net, it looks like the intended behavior is for no black line at all like on SNES9x.

Quote
Edit: It's fairly easy to download and install the jailbreak firmware, run the game, and then put it back to vanilla 4.5, yes?

It's almost certainly not going to fix anything, so I wouldn't bother. I don't have a Super NT, so I don't really know. I guess so?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:47 PM by ReddestDream »

Offline the_randomizer

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2018, 08:50 PM »
Quote
Okay so I ran into something pretty interesting with Higan Accuracy (which is horrible in the performance dept, but useful for testing something like this), and oddly enough, I got the exact same 1:1 result on there, same partial black line with most of it missing and the flickering, too, never thought I'd be able to reproduce it on there, so yeah, it's definitely not my Super NT, maybe it's how it acts on certain Snes models?

Higan and the Super NT are based on the 2/1/3 2-chip SNES, which is also the most common type and also what mine is (SNS-CPU-GPM-02, specifically) and probably what Dup84 has.

So, if Higan reproduces this issue, it's not the SD2SNES. It's normal SNES behavior. It's a bug in the hack translation, and it needs to be fixed by the author of the patch. That's still kinda odd since it was apparently tested on real hardware.

Just to confirm, when I patch the ROM, I get an internal checksum of 0xa83d and a file checksum of 0x1320298e for the unheadered patched ROM.

Quote
Same location, I'm thinking that the black line is supposed to cover the entire HUD, but instead on both Super NT and Higan Accuracy, I got the exact same results, same flickering behavior where that black line begins. At this point, I don't even know if this can be fixed, or if it's even worth having the devs look into it, I fear it would be a huge waste of time. *sigh* I was afraid of this  :(

Based on the screenshots on Romhacking.net, it looks like the intended behavior is for no black line at all like on SNES9x.

Quote
Edit: It's fairly easy to download and install the jailbreak firmware, run the game, and then put it back to vanilla 4.5, yes?

It's almost certainly not going to fix anything, so I wouldn't bother. I don't have a Super NT, so I don't really know. I guess so?

So uh, that's it? I should just give up and not bother testing anything at all and make it easier not to burden myself or the developers on this site? Sounds like a solid plan to me.  I sure as heck don't have any other way to test this, so yeah, why the hell should I even bother, right?

Got it, can't win, don't try.  I'll promptly ask a mod in a PM to close this "bug report" thread and everyone can move on, sound good?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:53 PM by the_randomizer »

Offline ReddestDream

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2018, 08:55 PM »
Quote
So uh, that's it? I should just give up and not bother testing anything at all and make it easier not to burden myself or the developers on this site? Sounds like a solid plan to me.

Got it, can't win, don't try.

Well, it's not the SD2SNES's fault from the evidence you've presented.

You could check the ROM again and make sure it's the same as the latest version.

But outside of that, yeah. It's the hack author's fault it doesn't run on real and accurately hardware-simulated hardware properly.

When they design stuff and only test on emulators, this can happen. :/

At least on SNES, higan/BSNES makes it easier to test, and modern hacks do get tested and are more likely to work properly on real hardware.

On N64, even new hacks are unlikely to work on real hardware since the emulators are still so bad. :(

Offline the_randomizer

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2018, 09:03 PM »
Quote
So uh, that's it? I should just give up and not bother testing anything at all and make it easier not to burden myself or the developers on this site? Sounds like a solid plan to me.

Got it, can't win, don't try.

Well, it's not the SD2SNES's fault from the evidence you've presented.

You could check the ROM again and make sure it's the same as the latest version.

But outside of that, yeah. It's the hack author's fault it doesn't run on real and accurately hardware-simulated hardware properly.

When they design stuff and only test on emulators, this can happen. :/

At least on SNES, higan/BSNES makes it easier to test, and modern hacks do get tested and are more likely to work properly on real hardware.

On N64, even new hacks are unlikely to work on real hardware since the emulators are still so bad. :('

I've reported it on the ROM hacking forums and made a thread with detailed info:

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=27168.new#new

I will try the jailbreak firmware, and *sigh* I have no choice but to apologize to everyone on here for wasting time, effing yet again.  I'm freaking done trying to report issues, it's not going to get anything resolved and the author can't even be contacted, so yeah. The fact no one else can reproduce it pisses me off.

Son of a bitch...  :-[

Offline ReddestDream

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2018, 09:05 PM »
Good idea. :)

Quote
I will try the jailbreak firmware, and *sigh* I have no choice but to apologize to everyone on here for wasting time, effing yet again.

Son of a bitch...  :-[

Oh, I don't mind. I find this fascinating.  ;)

Quote
The fact no one else can reproduce it pisses me off.

Dup84 reproduced it. So, it has been reproduced by others. And on real SNES hardware to boot.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 09:08 PM by ReddestDream »

Offline the_randomizer

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - battle HUD missing top line/flickering
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2018, 09:08 PM »
Good idea. :)

Quote
I will try the jailbreak firmware, and *sigh* I have no choice but to apologize to everyone on here for wasting time, effing yet again.

Son of a bitch...  :-[

Oh, I don't mind. I find this fascinating.  ;)

Quote
The fact no one else can reproduce it pisses me off.

Dup84 reproduced it. So, it has been reproduced by others.

How am I supposed to enjoy it without being distracted by that partially flickering line? It's distracting, it could damage my display (25"  HP Omen display)?  If it's been reproduced, why hasn't anyone reported it?
What's a good idea, me giving up on this? Or reporting it to ROM hacking?  Because either way, not a damn thing's going to get done to fix this.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 09:11 PM by the_randomizer »