Author Topic: 40 Winks Rom?  (Read 12318 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ozidual

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
  • Karma: +39/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2019, 05:05 PM »
Thanks for the detailed answers ozidual :)

I'm kind of surprised Piko wasn't given a final 1999 build with the source code ??? Especially if the game was 100% complete.

Since Piko has the source code for both the PAL and NTSC builds, I assume the sound and animation speeds are correct on their respective releases?

Correct - sound and animation speeds for PAL and NTSC builds are correct.

I'm not too shocked - it's 20 years since the game was considered final and gaming companies weren't known for keeping everything backed up and stored properly. 

Lets assume they had everything backed up properly.  If I remember right, they had a final build ready for release, but kept getting pushback to make silly changes to the game.  During that time you could have all sorts of forks off the main build as they made changes to fit the latest demands from above.  I wouldn't be shocked if they only made changes on NTSC or PAL to submit for checking that the demands were met.  If approved they would have applied the changes to the other region.

Then there's games like Ocarina of Time and its GameCube re-releases.  The Japanese OoT/MQ release was the first one compiled.  Then the NTSC-U OoT/MQ was compiled and the NTSC-U Collector's edition used that one.  Finally, the Japanese Collector's edition OoT was compiled.  Between compiling the NTSC-U version of OoT and compiling the Japanese Collector's edition version of OoT, they fixed a spelling error in the English text.  So, they made changes to the English side of things for a Japanese release.  I believe that's the only difference between the last two releases.  It just shows that even after release or completion of a game, devs will still continue to work on it.  Most likely in case there is a 1.1 release.

So there might be multiple final builds around or there might be none depending on what source code got backed up and how they did backups.

Sorry if the above sounds harsh - it wasn't meant to.  I'm just finishing my first caffeine hit of the day :)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 05:07 PM by ozidual »
Projects: Zelda OoT GCtoN64, Doshin the Giant, SSSV, Sim City 64, Getter Love, Shiren
Flash Carts: EverDrive64 2.5, EverDrive64 3.0, EverDrive N8, SD2SNES

Offline cvskid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2019, 07:47 PM »
Any updates on where to possibly find this in a ntsc-u format? The actual game not the beta pal version.

Offline cvskid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2019, 05:58 PM »
To play it.

Offline Aroenai

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
  • Karma: +19/-0
  • Sentient Hunk of Green Cheese
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2019, 06:42 PM »
Any updates on where to possibly find this in a ntsc-u format? The actual game not the beta pal version.

Yeah, you can find it here: https://tinyurl.com/y5qvsds2
---
Mostly working on Zelda OoT & MM GC patches
Also, breaking region protections
Everdrive 64 v2.01 modified with an UltraCIC II, 64drive HW2

Offline Kerr Avon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1365
  • Karma: +123/-3
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2019, 08:32 PM »
It's surprising how often the source code for commercial games seems to go missing. Even much of the source code for the original Silent Hill sequels (Silent Hill 2 to 4) is lost, meaning that the PS3 and XBox 360 collection (which only had two games on it anyway, SH 2 and 3) had to be built using older, incomplete source code, resulting in substandard versions of the games that upset hardcore Silent Hill fans no end. You'd think that the bigger, richer companies would protect their games' source code, but for some reason that's not always the case.

I really wish more (many many more!) companies would release the source code for their games. When id Software released the source code for the Doom games and the first three Quake games, and 3D Realms released the source code for Duke Nukem 3D, and Shadow Warrior 3D, the result was that (a) the game engines received some fantastic upgrades (such as running in higher resolutions, support for 3D models. better 'net code for multiplayer, etc), and (b) the games were ported to various non-PC platforms, so they could be played on other computers/consoles/hand-helds.

Sadly, very very few companies release the source code for their games. A real pity.

Offline cvskid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #110 on: September 26, 2019, 05:11 PM »
Any updates on where to possibly find this in a ntsc-u format? The actual game not the beta pal version.

Yeah, you can find it here: https://tinyurl.com/y5qvsds2
Jokes on you i want the rom not the actual cart. You must work for piko. Nice troll attempt though instead of contributing to the conversation or just ignoring my post and or thread altogether.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 05:18 PM by cvskid »

Offline cvskid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #111 on: September 26, 2019, 05:15 PM »
Yeah, it really is a shame that some source codes end up eventually get lost to time Kerr Avon
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 05:17 PM by cvskid »

Offline ozidual

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
  • Karma: +39/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #112 on: September 26, 2019, 05:58 PM »
Yes Aroenai trolled you, but seriously 40 Winks just came out earlier this year.  Give Piko a chance to make some money off of it.  They have more games planned and are hinting at releasing another one soon.

I agree, it would be nice if they would release the source code.  If they want to, they will. 

It seems like every year they're buying up the rights to more old games.  That means that there is probably a bunch of IP out there for sale for decent prices.  So, if you have money and you're interested in making source code available, go out there and get it.  If you don't have money, there are still a few things you can do.  You could try to track down the owners of existing IP.  You could pool together with others to purchase it.  You could find and talk to the people with money who are interested in releasing more.

I really wish more people would see this side of things. 

I can't remember which video it was, but the guy who owns Piko was talking about tracking down the owner of the IP rights for a game.  He spent months on it, but then had to put the search aside to work on other stuff.  When he finally got back to it, the person he was trying to track down had died and the living relatives couldn't help him.  Having time for leg work is almost as important as having the money.
Projects: Zelda OoT GCtoN64, Doshin the Giant, SSSV, Sim City 64, Getter Love, Shiren
Flash Carts: EverDrive64 2.5, EverDrive64 3.0, EverDrive N8, SD2SNES

Offline Kerr Avon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1365
  • Karma: +123/-3
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #113 on: September 26, 2019, 09:04 PM »
Any updates on where to possibly find this in a ntsc-u format? The actual game not the beta pal version.

Yeah, you can find it here: https://tinyurl.com/y5qvsds2
Jokes on you i want the rom not the actual cart. You must work for piko. Nice troll attempt though instead of contributing to the conversation or just ignoring my post and or thread altogether.

It does seem ridiculous that Piko won't sell a rom file of the game for people who are willing to buy it (at a reduced price, of course, it wouldn't be fare to charge as much for the rom file as for the cartridge too) but who want to use it on an emulator or a flash cartridge instead of owning a physical cartridge. Piko must be loosing quite a few potential sales as a result of them not offering the rom file itself for sale, and hopefully they'll change their stance and make it available later for a reasonable price. Especially if enough interested people contact them to make it clear that cartridges aren't the only format that can earn money in the N64 scene.

But it would certainly NOT be a good thing if some end user uploads the 40 Winks rom file so that anyone can download it for free. If people pirate the game instead of buying it then not only will Piko be put off from releasing more new N64 games, but any other companies or amateur coders who might be considering release N64 software will be put off too. The N64 sees few enough new game or homebrew releases as it is, so we *really* don't want to dissuade any potential N64 coders.

Offline Galron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #114 on: September 26, 2019, 10:48 PM »
I talked to piko and apparently they don’t sell any cartridge rom until they sell out their initial cartridge productions and those from their kickstarters. This way they avoid piracy.

Offline Aroenai

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
  • Karma: +19/-0
  • Sentient Hunk of Green Cheese
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #115 on: September 27, 2019, 06:05 AM »
Jokes on you i want the rom not the actual cart. You must work for piko. Nice troll attempt though instead of contributing to the conversation or just ignoring my post and or thread altogether.

Your question was just vague enough to have some fun, you didn't actually say rom. ;D

I was involved with the play testing before release, so you're not technically wrong. Pretty sure someone at Piko watches these forums as well.
---
Mostly working on Zelda OoT & MM GC patches
Also, breaking region protections
Everdrive 64 v2.01 modified with an UltraCIC II, 64drive HW2

Offline cvskid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #116 on: September 27, 2019, 06:08 AM »
Jokes on you i want the rom not the actual cart. You must work for piko. Nice troll attempt though instead of contributing to the conversation or just ignoring my post and or thread altogether.

Your question was just vague enough to have some fun, you didn't actually say rom. ;D

I was involved with the play testing before release, so you're not technically wrong. Pretty sure someone at Piko watches these forums as well.
I take back what i said eariler then. i apologize. Actually kind of cool you had an involvement with the game.

Offline cvskid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #117 on: September 27, 2019, 06:13 AM »
Any updates on where to possibly find this in a ntsc-u format? The actual game not the beta pal version.

Yeah, you can find it here: https://tinyurl.com/y5qvsds2
Jokes on you i want the rom not the actual cart. You must work for piko. Nice troll attempt though instead of contributing to the conversation or just ignoring my post and or thread altogether.

It does seem ridiculous that Piko won't sell a rom file of the game for people who are willing to buy it (at a reduced price, of course, it wouldn't be fare to charge as much for the rom file as for the cartridge too) but who want to use it on an emulator or a flash cartridge instead of owning a physical cartridge. Piko must be loosing quite a few potential sales as a result of them not offering the rom file itself for sale, and hopefully they'll change their stance and make it available later for a reasonable price. Especially if enough interested people contact them to make it clear that cartridges aren't the only format that can earn money in the N64 scene.

But it would certainly NOT be a good thing if some end user uploads the 40 Winks rom file so that anyone can download it for free. If people pirate the game instead of buying it then not only will Piko be put off from releasing more new N64 games, but any other companies or amateur coders who might be considering release N64 software will be put off too. The N64 sees few enough new game or homebrew releases as it is, so we *really* don't want to dissuade any potential N64 coders.
That makes alot of sense. thanks for explaining that to me. Wanted to buy the rom to use on my everdrive 64. Just gonna have to bite the bullet and buy a hard copy. Might as well even get the bundle that comes with the controller. I hope the controller is good.

Offline cvskid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #118 on: September 27, 2019, 06:16 AM »
Yes Aroenai trolled you, but seriously 40 Winks just came out earlier this year.  Give Piko a chance to make some money off of it.  They have more games planned and are hinting at releasing another one soon.

I agree, it would be nice if they would release the source code.  If they want to, they will. 

It seems like every year they're buying up the rights to more old games.  That means that there is probably a bunch of IP out there for sale for decent prices.  So, if you have money and you're interested in making source code available, go out there and get it.  If you don't have money, there are still a few things you can do.  You could try to track down the owners of existing IP.  You could pool together with others to purchase it.  You could find and talk to the people with money who are interested in releasing more.

I really wish more people would see this side of things. 

I can't remember which video it was, but the guy who owns Piko was talking about tracking down the owner of the IP rights for a game.  He spent months on it, but then had to put the search aside to work on other stuff.  When he finally got back to it, the person he was trying to track down had died and the living relatives couldn't help him.  Having time for leg work is almost as important as having the money.
Thanks, and that's exactly what i am going to do. Buy a copy of the game.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 06:26 AM by cvskid »

Offline mistamontiel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ..!!
    • View Profile
    • http://www.youtube.com/mistamontiel00
Re: 40 Winks Rom?
« Reply #119 on: September 30, 2019, 05:00 PM »
Din't know about this until recent DidYaKnow YT lols. NTSC rom hopeful anybody not that you'll be tracked and sued er nothing right they're small time..

Just don't want my flash cartridge leaving my N64 and if I buy this crazy expensive port no one knows is 100% finished, then I try to digitize it I am going to break things besides the bank