Author Topic: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge  (Read 8261 times)

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Offline Galron

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2019, 04:42 AM »
Ya, I'm ordering form StoneAge myself.

Offline krisk77

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2019, 09:58 AM »
Mine shipped and now expecting a £55 import customs fee. Anyone in the UK that ordered be prepared to get fkd by customs.

Offline fille1976

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2019, 01:39 PM »
Yep,me too,i'm in belgium,this is a real bummer cause its not on the website while i ordered,it whas taxfree.
But they moved to andorra,and thats europe,but not EU,so in EU we must pay fees,in the us you don't have to pay fees under 800$.
Why i born in europe and not in the us,for electronics this europe is big shit.

Offline Mad Hatter

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2019, 05:56 PM »
I was watching some videos, and they say it "emulates" CD games. So is it emulating Sega CD games, or is it playing it like on real hardware?
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Offline Relikk

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2019, 06:41 PM »
It's hardware emulation of the Mega CD add-on using an FPGA.

Offline Galron

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2019, 08:33 PM »
Some might cal it 'hardware simulation'. But its basically what all FPGA devices including most Flashcarts are doing.

Offline Galron

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2019, 09:15 PM »
Did you hear that it now includes support for Virtua Racing? SVP chip?

Offline KRIKzz

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2019, 01:56 AM »
Did you hear that it now includes support for Virtua Racing? SVP chip?

Likely they just used opensource SVP core which were released recently by Sergey Dvodnenko aka srg320. This core will be used for mega-ed as well

Offline phoenixdownita

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2019, 07:16 AM »
Did you hear that it now includes support for Virtua Racing? SVP chip?

Likely they just used opensource SVP core which were released recently by Sergey Dvodnenko aka srg320. This core will be used for mega-ed as well

yup, in a post they stated they licensed the SVP core from srg320 ... I believe the core is GPLv3 so the open source part cannot just be used like that (GPLv3 is pretty sticky)

Offline KRIKzz

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2019, 12:31 PM »
Did you hear that it now includes support for Virtua Racing? SVP chip?

Likely they just used opensource SVP core which were released recently by Sergey Dvodnenko aka srg320. This core will be used for mega-ed as well

yup, in a post they stated they licensed the SVP core from srg320 ... I believe the core is GPLv3 so the open source part cannot just be used like that (GPLv3 is pretty sticky)

srg320 already gave me permission anyway.

Offline leonquest

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2019, 07:46 AM »
I was watching some videos, and they say it "emulates" CD games. So is it emulating Sega CD games, or is it playing it like on real hardware?

Depends on what you understand with "emulation", the debate is still ongoing.

The difference between using an fpga to recreate a hardware, and say, C++, is that the latter has to work in an OS environment, share resources and therefore will have inherent lag. Not to mention accurate emulation requires insane amounts of computing power.

"emulation" through an FPGA has none of the disadvantages above (depending on the programmer's skill of course) , and thus has become the primary backbone for flash carts and accurate clone consoles (like the AVS, or analogue's consoles).
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Offline leonquest

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2019, 07:48 AM »
Some might cal it 'hardware simulation'. But its basically what all FPGA devices including most Flashcarts are doing.

That's just a buzzword term, made into a marketing strategy by analogue. Actual hardware simulation is an entirely different thing than what's being done on these FPGAs.

Of course the right term for this type of "emulation" is still in debate, but who cares, right?
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Offline Galron

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2019, 03:48 AM »
I wasn't referring to what Analogue may or may not be using to describe their FPGA tech. But even Krikkz is using a variation on FPGA to replicate hardware chips of carts of old.

A more useful understanding is emulation tends to 'emulates' on the software level (accuracy isn't generally as important as speed, and compatibility), while FPGA attempts to replicate how the technology works on the original 'hardware' level. If done properly it will function virtually exactly like the original hardware with the same slowdowns, same glitches, etc. Where as emulation in theory can offer 'better than original hardware'. Even a FPGA can sometimes offer better than original hardware for example allowing Super FX games to run 'faster' than they would have on original hardware.

Emulation can also try to 'emulate' hardware, but it generlaly requires alot more horsepower under the computer's hood, and isn't as 'efficient'.

As for how 'hardware simulation' vs 'hardware emulation' as terminology, its existed long before Analogue came onto the scene.

For example this discussion from over 10 years ago...

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1584617/simulator-or-emulator-what-is-the-difference

That being said a 'simulation' doesn't necessarily have to be 'accurate' to the original production hardware either (if its only a simulation of the 'software'), it might still 'run slower' or faster depending on what it is 'simulating'. It might only be simulating the software level and not the hardware level... While a emulator might also be trying to function both on software and the hardware level as well. But limited to converting those 'actions' to the OS/CPU its being used on, which might cause it to run slower than original hardware. Higan IIRC is one of the emulators that tries to go for 'accuracy' but is limited by the power of your pc, because emulation usually requires excessive power to do it right...

https://www.electronicdesign.com/products/verify-hardware-logic-simulation-environment

FPGA on the other hand tries to replicate actual hardware, at the original speeds, and all original functionality. Again only as good as the person who makes the cores replicating the original hardware and chipsets.

Even if both are called 'emulation' it doesn't help to lump them both together because how they 'emulate' is not quite the same... "software emulation' is different than 'hardware emulation' (again pretty sure these terms predate Analogue, and I'm not sure what Analogue uses in their marketing since I don't pay attention to their marketing).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_emulation
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 04:43 PM by Galron »

Offline Galron

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2019, 03:59 AM »
Double checking Analogue's marketing... they seem to use the description 'no emulation', and that their competitors use 'emulation' (and they do not), to represent the fact that they are different than a software emulation most emulators are on PC or Raspberry Pi. They don't seem to use any terms like 'simulation' or 'hardware emulation'.

"
We're preserving history with FPGA hardware.

Quote
"A reimagining of perhaps the greatest video game system of all time. Engineered with an FPGA. No emulation. 1080p. Zero lag. Total accuracy. The Super Nt is not a plug n' play toy. It is the definitive way to explore Nintendo's 16-bit era. Compatible with the 2,200+ SNES and Super Famicom game cartridge library. Explore and re-live one of the greatest video game systems of all time with no compromises."

"The Super Nt has the same unparalleled compatibility as the Nt mini. The core functionality of the system is engineered directly into an Altera Cyclone V, a sophisticated FPGA. We spent thousands of hours engineering the system via FPGA for absolute accuracy. Unlike the knock off and emulation systems that riddle the market today, you’ll be experiencing the 16-bit era free of compromises. The Super Nt is designed to preserve video game history, with the respect it deserves.
Quote
We set out to design the definitive way to explore Sega's 16-bit and 8-bit era. A reimagining of the underdog that led a 16-bit revolution. Engineered with an FPGA. No emulation. 1080p. Zero lag. Total accuracy. Mega Sg is not a plug n' play toy. Compatible with the 2,180+ Sega Genesis, Mega Drive and Master System game cartridge library. Explore and re-live one of the greatest video game systems of all time with no compromises.
"

Mega Sg has the same unparalleled compatibility as Super Nt. The core functionality of each system is engineered directly into an Altera Cyclone V, a sophisticated FPGA. We spent thousands of hours engineering each system via FPGA for absolute accuracy. Unlike the knock off and emulation systems that riddle the market today, you’ll be experiencing Sega's 16-bit and 8-bit era free of compromises. Mega Sg is designed to preserve video game history, with the respect it deserves.

Quote
The Nt mini has the same unparalleled compatibility as the original Nt. The core functionality of the original NES is engineered directly into an Altera Cyclone V, a sophisticated FPGA. When it comes to knowledge of the NES, our lead Electrical Engineer is second to none. He spent over 5,000 hours re-engineering the NES via FPGA for absolute accuracy. Unlike the knock off and emulation systems that riddle the market today, you’ll be experiencing the NES free of any compromises.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 04:01 AM by Galron »

Offline leonquest

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Re: Terraonion Mega CD FPGA Cartridge
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2019, 08:07 PM »
I wasn't referring to what Analogue may or may not be using to describe their FPGA tech. But even Krikkz is using a variation on FPGA to replicate hardware chips of carts of old.

A more useful understanding is emulation tends to 'emulates' on the software level (accuracy isn't generally as important as speed, and compatibility), while FPGA attempts to replicate how the technology works on the original 'hardware' level. If done properly it will function virtually exactly like the original hardware with the same slowdowns, same glitches, etc. Where as emulation in theory can offer 'better than original hardware'. Even a FPGA can sometimes offer better than original hardware for example allowing Super FX games to run 'faster' than they would have on original hardware.

Emulation can also try to 'emulate' hardware, but it generlaly requires alot more horsepower under the computer's hood, and isn't as 'efficient'.

As for how 'hardware simulation' vs 'hardware emulation' as terminology, its existed long before Analogue came onto the scene.

For example this discussion from over 10 years ago...

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1584617/simulator-or-emulator-what-is-the-difference

That being said a 'simulation' doesn't necessarily have to be 'accurate' to the original production hardware either (if its only a simulation of the 'software'), it might still 'run slower' or faster depending on what it is 'simulating'. It might only be simulating the software level and not the hardware level... While a emulator might also be trying to function both on software and the hardware level as well. But limited to converting those 'actions' to the OS/CPU its being used on, which might cause it to run slower than original hardware. Higan IIRC is one of the emulators that tries to go for 'accuracy' but is limited by the power of your pc, because emulation usually requires excessive power to do it right...

https://www.electronicdesign.com/products/verify-hardware-logic-simulation-environment

FPGA on the other hand tries to replicate actual hardware, at the original speeds, and all original functionality. Again only as good as the person who makes the cores replicating the original hardware and chipsets.

Even if both are called 'emulation' it doesn't help to lump them both together because how they 'emulate' is not quite the same... "software emulation' is different than 'hardware emulation' (again pretty sure these terms predate Analogue, and I'm not sure what Analogue uses in their marketing since I don't pay attention to their marketing).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_emulation

Like I said, it's an ongoing debate as to what the term "emulation" encompasses. On one hand Byuu says it's the same thing because of both FPGAs and emulators like Higan are trying to achieve the same goal: an accurate representation of an old hardware system; they are just implemented and programmed in a different way. Kevtris on the other hand says, and I quote, "The thing about the FPGA is, it replicates the hardware at a very low level,", "It's not emulating it per se; there's no code running. What it does is, it's like a chip that you can program to turn into another chip". Both opinions are valid, so believe what you will  on what the term "emulation" *really* means.

This being said, I'm pretty sure hardware simulation refers to an entirely different exercise. It's become a popular term amongst youtubers and other non-engineers. Just google "super NT simulation" and several articles where Christopher Taber is interviewed show up, with the term being used all over the place. Even the links you shared explain with better detail on why these 2 forms of implementation are not a simulation.

TL:DR, if someone non-technical asks "is this emulation?" I will spare them the technical jibberish and say "yes". If they really want to know the differences or advantages between each, only then I will take my time to explain.

Everdrive64 V3 - SD2Snes rev. f - Everdrive N8 fami - MegaEd X3 - PS IO - MODE - MISTer