Author Topic: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...  (Read 339 times)

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Offline Galron

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Anyone notice that most of the NoIntro collections and even links to non-no-intro games seem to have a handful of SMS games rather that the GG roms...  The files end with ".SMS".

Games like Prince of Persia, OutRun Europa, Rastan Saga, Predator 2, Excellent Dizzy, Fantastic Dizzy, WWF Steel Cage Challenge, Olympic Gold, Super Kick Off, Taito Chase H.Q., Mickey Mouse: Castle of Illusions, and R.C. Grand Prix.

How could people make that mistake?

Offline Assman

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2019, 05:00 AM »
Some GG games were basically just SMS ROMs in a GG cart, so that could explain it. I have no idea which games are like that, though. Maybe the extensions were automatically changed to .SMS by whatever ROM checking program they used since they matched SMS dumps.

Offline Galron

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 04:43 PM »
The problem is they don’t load correctly on gamegear the settings are all off screen resolution for example (most of the screen is cut off around the edges) and the colors, but load in master system just fine.

Offline Galron

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 08:48 PM »
http://www.smspower.org/forums/11392-NonEmulatedGamesForGameGear

Well this seems to explain it.. Apparently there were a handful of games that had extra chips in them to run in a special master system mode within a Game Gear. Without that chip, the rom won't function right. Some emulators can emulate the special mode. But maybe you would need a special core/switch for it to work in FPGA type devices.

Offline nuu

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 06:42 PM »
Where is there any mention of a special chip? The reason why some GG roms have the .sms extension is explained in this post among others:
Quote from: Maxim
...
the Game Gear has built-in Master System compatibility, so these games were released as a "Master Gear + Master System game all in a Game Gear cartridge". This was mainly because it was easy to convert the Master System version of the game this way (usually, the only difference is a larger font to make it more readable). However, the .sms and .gg file formats do not contain information about this "built in Master Gear" (really, just a wire connecting two cartridge pins), so instead the emulator will look at the file extension to decide whether to use GG mode or SMS mode.

In other words, some GG games uses the GG's SMS mode, and there is no way for an emulator (or flashcart) to know by just looking at the rom if it's such a game or not. For that reason the .sms file extension is used for these games so emulators knows what to do. They are still GG games and will not work correctly on an SMS (due to different resolution and colors).

A real GG can tell if it's an SMS mode game or not by looking at how one of the cartridge pins is connected, but not an emulator that only has the rom dump to go by.

They do say that these games have a built in Master Gear in the cartridge though. But it doesn't sound like it contains anything special.

Offline Galron

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 06:00 PM »
Quote
They are still GG games and will not work correctly on an SMS (due to different resolution and colors).
!

Actually they do work in SMS core (FPGA). Apparently they are same game as the SMS versions of the game game (found in SMS No-Intro), but the conversion is done with an extra components "Master Gear" in the cartridge. They will work with SMS side though, if put running SMS core.

Mega SG apparently doesn't have a way to emulate that special hardware so just tries to force it running in the standard GG mode, which looks off, and has the wrong resolution.

More information on how Master Gear technology works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Gear
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 06:03 PM by Galron »

Offline Richardragon87

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2019, 12:58 PM »
I remember a year ago when I was going through the GG and SMS packs for my Everdrive GBA that a lot of games were indeed mislabelled as gg when they should have been SMS and vice versa. Ones that were mostly unlicensed had an issue that until they were renamed sms a lot of them would have a inverted color pallet but it all got fixed when they were renamed to sms.

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Offline Galron

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2019, 07:00 PM »
Ya, that fixes them in the emulators. It was confusing on Mega SG though. I couldn't get them to work correctly until I switched to actual SMS core.

Offline nuu

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2019, 09:23 PM »
Quote
They are still GG games and will not work correctly on an SMS (due to different resolution and colors).
!

Actually they do work in SMS core (FPGA). Apparently they are same game as the SMS versions of the game game (found in SMS No-Intro), but the conversion is done with an extra components "Master Gear" in the cartridge. They will work with SMS side though, if put running SMS core.

Mega SG apparently doesn't have a way to emulate that special hardware so just tries to force it running in the standard GG mode, which looks off, and has the wrong resolution.

More information on how Master Gear technology works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Gear
I see so they do work on an SMS. That's why you only need to change to a bigger font to convert an SMS game to GG, the Master Gear part does the rest.
In that Wikipedia article it sounds like the Master Gear is little else than a pin converter.

I guess the GG Everdrive doesn't support "Master Gear" cartridges either.

Offline Richardragon87

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2019, 09:36 PM »
Ya, that fixes them in the emulators. It was confusing on Mega SG though. I couldn't get them to work correctly until I switched to actual SMS core.

Indeed though it likely only works on devices that were not the real hardware... sometimes I kind of wish things would be simpler which would allow you to change values so certain stuff can appear on a screen on what the hardware would run, it wouldn't be easy but if enough time and effort was put in... it could be something spectacular now that the SMS power GG conversions have oddly come to a halt.
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Offline Galron

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Re: Game Gear No Intro collections with miscategorized SMS roms...
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2019, 03:10 AM »
Quote
They are still GG games and will not work correctly on an SMS (due to different resolution and colors).
!

Actually they do work in SMS core (FPGA). Apparently they are same game as the SMS versions of the game game (found in SMS No-Intro), but the conversion is done with an extra components "Master Gear" in the cartridge. They will work with SMS side though, if put running SMS core.

Mega SG apparently doesn't have a way to emulate that special hardware so just tries to force it running in the standard GG mode, which looks off, and has the wrong resolution.

More information on how Master Gear technology works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Gear
I see so they do work on an SMS. That's why you only need to change to a bigger font to convert an SMS game to GG, the Master Gear part does the rest.
In that Wikipedia article it sounds like the Master Gear is little else than a pin converter.

I guess the GG Everdrive doesn't support "Master Gear" cartridges either.

Ya, unless Krikkz put a "master gear" into the cartridge I doubt it works.