Author Topic: Tobu Tobu Girl Deluxe makes it's way into the SGB enhanced and Boarder catagory  (Read 2278 times)

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Offline Richardragon87

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So a new homebrew game has finally surfaced after too many years I have to keep track of ones that contain new SGB boarders and enhanced colors… now at long last a new pallet set and a custom boarder has been made world wide to play on your own EDGB called Tobu Tobu Girl Deluxe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDBBjcNk9AU

https://tangramgames.dk/tobutobugirldx/

This is a great day for all of us EDGB fans as we now has an all new boarder we can use across any game as well as a nice pallet set to use too, I can only hope in the near future we get more unique homebrew boarders as my last one I managed to try out was Pokémon Grape and that was years back ^^
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 09:58 PM by Richardragon87 »
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Offline Richardragon87

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Just a mention I tried it and it seems to be using a unique pallet but its no where near as good as the most importantly enhanced color game still yet to have been beaten in pallets being "Pachi-Slot Hisshou Guide GB" but it works on a lot of other games as does it's really cool boarder so be sure to give it a try.

As for the pallet it seems to be based off a standard color pallet but it works and can be used on any non enhanced SGB game so be sure to make sure not to mix it with SGB Enhanced title games otherwise they will mix!
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Offline nensondubois

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I'm really unimpressed with the Super Game Boy support they included in this homebrew. A border and a bland palette is really the bottom of the barrel and is low effort as opposed to adding a SGB soundtrack and other features.

Offline nuu

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But it's not any different from how most commercial games used the SGB. Just the minimal effort to satisfy customers' expectations from any game released after the SGB. Exclusive SGB content would be limited to people with both a SNES and SGB, and that might not be the goal for the game.

I'd also like to see GB homebrew that uses the SNES hardware more though.

Offline Richardragon87

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I'm really unimpressed with the Super Game Boy support they included in this homebrew. A border and a bland palette is really the bottom of the barrel and is low effort as opposed to adding a SGB soundtrack and other features.

Why would that matter much when you could use that boarder across any non enhanced Super Gameboy game the pallet color set isn't that bland when used on games such as the Kirby series ^^

But it's not any different from how most commercial games used the SGB. Just the minimal effort to satisfy customers' expectations from any game released after the SGB. Exclusive SGB content would be limited to people with both a SNES and SGB, and that might not be the goal for the game.

I'd also like to see GB homebrew that uses the SNES hardware more though.

The problem with the SGB enhancement situation was it was meant according to the user guide to enhance your games in more colors than how we were limited to with the lime green screen, sadly it later became a gimmick as the GBC surpassed what it intended to and even to this day the only 2 games that took full advantage of this was Donkey Kong and Pachi-Slot Hisshou Guide GB making a map in more colors than the SGB could display and the other making a whole slot machine in more colors than you can imagine.

These days a lot take the SGB enhancements by a pinch of salt being just a bland few pallets and nothing else to use it with, but surely you must know that despite the pallets cannot be saved as they have the values of _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ - when checked on what pallets they used can still be used on non enhanced games as can boarders so every little helps and as it has been from my memory a decade since I have seen a homebrew games with a boarder this was a great moment in history for us.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 03:39 PM by Richardragon87 »
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Offline nuu

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The problem is that using the SGB's feature to use more than the DMG's 4 colors is slow and doesn't work well in scrolling games. Donkey Kong and Pachislot were both easy to do, because both games uses static screens. Another solution is to upload a SNES rom to RAM and execute from there like Space Invaders do in Arcade Mode. In that case it's basically a SNES game with access to all hardware in the SNES.

I think the reason why developers seldom used these features is an economical question. The extra time needed to do it is increasing the development cost, and since the audience is smaller on the SGB than on a standard GB, it might not increase sales enough to make up for that extra cost.

Making a border on the other hand is as easy as drawing the static tiles used in it, as long as there is rom space to store it in. It doesn't need to change very often (or never) so there are no timing problems. That's why most GB games after the SGB's release do at least include a unique border to upload.

Offline Richardragon87

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The problem is that using the SGB's feature to use more than the DMG's 4 colors is slow and doesn't work well in scrolling games. Donkey Kong and Pachislot were both easy to do, because both games uses static screens. Another solution is to upload a SNES rom to RAM and execute from there like Space Invaders do in Arcade Mode. In that case it's basically a SNES game with access to all hardware in the SNES.

I think the reason why developers seldom used these features is an economical question. The extra time needed to do it is increasing the development cost, and since the audience is smaller on the SGB than on a standard GB, it might not increase sales enough to make up for that extra cost.

Making a border on the other hand is as easy as drawing the static tiles used in it, as long as there is rom space to store it in. It doesn't need to change very often (or never) so there are no timing problems. That's why most GB games after the SGB's release do at least include a unique border to upload.

Yeah I see your point it really fails in games such as some of the Pokémon ones, Gamefreak did get it right with the R/B/G and S games however they chose the worst ever pallet set for Y which is one of the reasons I am grateful a gen 2 patch existed to correct this pallet hue they went with is nearly impossible to see on a standard CRT TV making their pinkish choices almost tinted in white.

And about the RAM making the game a SNES game like space invaders did as uploading a SNES rom to RAM that would work too.

As for the boarders the rom space to store it isn't really what keeps the boarder on the SGB it's just what the device loads first hand it keeps a copy of what appears until the next boarder replaces it so the device always keeps a backup of the boarder loaded to the memory until it is shut off.
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Offline nuu

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And about the RAM making the game a SNES game like space invaders did as uploading a SNES rom to RAM that would work too.
Then again Space Invaders isn't even a scrolling game, so it's ironic that it's the only game that does this despite not benefiting too much from it. But since Space Invaders is a very simple game to develop, the extra time needed wouldn't have that much of an impact on development cost, rather they'd want to spend time on things that adds new features to the old arcade game. That's one reason to make a remake for an old game in the first place.

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As for the boarders the rom space to store it isn't really what keeps the boarder on the SGB it's just what the device loads first hand it keeps a copy of what appears until the next boarder replaces it so the device always keeps a backup of the boarder loaded to the memory until it is shut off.
Doesn't matter where its kept when being displayed, the border data still has to be stored in rom in some way or you would have nothing to upload from. So I was just saying that having a unique border in a GB game requires the rom space for the data. If the space can be spared, there is little reason not to include a border.

Offline Richardragon87

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Doesn't matter where its kept when being displayed, the border data still has to be stored in rom in some way or you would have nothing to upload from. So I was just saying that having a unique border in a GB game requires the rom space for the data. If the space can be spared, there is little reason not to include a border.

But each save RAM for the boarders is the same way the premade ones are accessed in the menu, it's likely if a future EDGB device would have a in game button input to reset back to the menu it would likely result in the boarder from the previous game played that brought it up to stay until the RAM replaced the last brought out one... though you can still do that without waiting.
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Offline nuu

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That has nothing to do with what I was saying.

But in that case the EDGB could just reset the SGB. That's why it uses the reset pin on the cartridge, so that SGB borders can be initialized.
Or it could just upload a new border.

Offline Richardragon87

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That has nothing to do with what I was saying.

But in that case the EDGB could just reset the SGB. That's why it uses the reset pin on the cartridge, so that SGB borders can be initialized.
Or it could just upload a new border.

But the reset pin would be somewhere inside the SGB slot with the EDGB inserted so you would have to take it out to pr... oh wait...
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Offline nuu

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It's triggered electrically by the EDGB.

Offline Richardragon87

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It's triggered electrically by the EDGB.

But the switch was inside the sticker at the front but when inserted into the SGB it surely is covered from being pressed though I never resorted to using the switch as Retrotowers didn't make it clear enough like how Krikzz did as to where it was or even mentioned it on their product page... the EDGB X7 I mean.
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Offline nensondubois

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I'm really unimpressed with the Super Game Boy support they included in this homebrew. A border and a bland palette is really the bottom of the barrel and is low effort as opposed to adding a SGB soundtrack and other features.

Why would that matter much when you could use that boarder across any non enhanced Super Gameboy game the pallet color set isn't that bland when used on games such as the Kirby series ^^

But it's not any different from how most commercial games used the SGB. Just the minimal effort to satisfy customers' expectations from any game released after the SGB. Exclusive SGB content would be limited to people with both a SNES and SGB, and that might not be the goal for the game.

I'd also like to see GB homebrew that uses the SNES hardware more though.

The problem with the SGB enhancement situation was it was meant according to the user guide to enhance your games in more colors than how we were limited to with the lime green screen, sadly it later became a gimmick as the GBC surpassed what it intended to and even to this day the only 2 games that took full advantage of this was Donkey Kong and Pachi-Slot Hisshou Guide GB making a map in more colors than the SGB could display and the other making a whole slot machine in more colors than you can imagine.

These days a lot take the SGB enhancements by a pinch of salt being just a bland few pallets and nothing else to use it with, but surely you must know that despite the pallets cannot be saved as they have the values of _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ - when checked on what pallets they used can still be used on non enhanced games as can boarders so every little helps and as it has been from my memory a decade since I have seen a homebrew games with a boarder this was a great moment in history for us.

The problem is that using the SGB's feature to use more than the DMG's 4 colors is slow and doesn't work well in scrolling games. Donkey Kong and Pachislot were both easy to do, because both games uses static screens. Another solution is to upload a SNES rom to RAM and execute from there like Space Invaders do in Arcade Mode. In that case it's basically a SNES game with access to all hardware in the SNES.

I think the reason why developers seldom used these features is an economical question. The extra time needed to do it is increasing the development cost, and since the audience is smaller on the SGB than on a standard GB, it might not increase sales enough to make up for that extra cost.

Making a border on the other hand is as easy as drawing the static tiles used in it, as long as there is rom space to store it in. It doesn't need to change very often (or never) so there are no timing problems. That's why most GB games after the SGB's release do at least include a unique border to upload.

Actually, a lot of games did set up more than 4 static palette screens, it was fairly common. You actually don't need to upload a program that takes complete control of the SNES to run code, you can actually upload simple routines with DATA_SND and make changes to the SGB program itself for extra effects or whatever you want as long as there is enough free RAM then setting up a simple JUMP command. There are three banks basically unused and was meant for this purpose. You could access the unused / unfinished SNES OBJ_TRN mode and set up locations in VRAM and have them interact with the GB game for example, you could even overwrite and expand on currently existing functions but that would take a lot more effort and time so I guess it is "understandable" why sadly none of this happened in any commercial game, though surprisingly larger game studios didn't touch the Super Game Boy hardware with a ten foot pole including Nintendo. Instead they mostly locked the player out of palette selection which was ridiculous even by their standards. I reverse-engineered the SGB and SGB2 BIOS revisions and I can tell you that there was a LOT that could have been done to spruce up games if they were just given a little more time and effort and at most 256kb of ROM space, which was still a lot for smaller game institutions at the time.

The GBC may have had an impact on the development and support developers were interested in adding for SGB games but a few games that did support the GBC did look as well as they did on the GBC.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 05:33 PM by nensondubois »

Offline nuu

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It's triggered electrically by the EDGB.

But the switch was inside the sticker at the front but when inserted into the SGB it surely is covered from being pressed though I never resorted to using the switch as Retrotowers didn't make it clear enough like how Krikzz did as to where it was or even mentioned it on their product page... the EDGB X7 I mean.
I'm not talking about a switch, I'm talking about a cartridge pin.
https://old.pinouts.ru/Game/CartridgeGameBoy.shtml
Pin 30 here is the RESET pin which should reset the hardware. I think all EDGB (even the first one without a switch) might be using this to reset the SGB border after loading a game.

Actually, a lot of games did set up more than 4 static palette screens, it was fairly common. You actually don't need to upload a program that takes complete control of the SNES to run code, you can actually upload simple routines with DATA_SND and make changes to the SGB program itself for extra effects or whatever you want as long as there is enough free RAM then setting up a simple JUMP command. There are three banks basically unused and was meant for this purpose. You could access the unused / unfinished SNES OBJ_TRN mode and set up locations in VRAM and have them interact with the GB game for example, you could even overwrite and expand on currently existing functions but that would take a lot more effort and time so I guess it is "understandable" why sadly none of this happened in any commercial game, though surprisingly larger game studios didn't touch the Super Game Boy hardware with a ten foot pole including Nintendo. Instead they mostly locked the player out of palette selection which was ridiculous even by their standards. I reverse-engineered the SGB and SGB2 BIOS revisions and I can tell you that there was a LOT that could have been done to spruce up games if they were just given a little more time and effort and at most 256kb of ROM space, which was still a lot for smaller game institutions at the time.

The GBC may have had an impact on the development and support developers were interested in adding for SGB games but a few games that did support the GBC did look as well as they did on the GBC.
I agree with you, I would have liked to see much more use of the SGB+SNES in more games. The same can be said about the Game Boy Player for the Gamecube.