Author Topic: Mega ED Pro  (Read 19651 times)

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Offline Galron

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2020, 08:06 AM »
Quote
RTC for save states logging

What is this exactly? How does it work, how is it an improvement?

Offline nuu

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2020, 01:59 PM »
RTC means Real-Time Clock. A clock and calender that runs on a battery at all times. Probably for doing time stamps for the save state files. The improvement is, besides letting the user knowing the age of the file, that it can have many files and overwrite old ones perhaps. It would be nice if homebrewers also has access to the RTC.

Ok compatibility is probably very close to 100% then (there's always that weird little game that has some obscure hardware that everyone forgot about and will not work in flashcarts or emulators as a result). The Mega Drive cartridge situation isn't as complicated as the NES mapper hell for example, so compatibility is easy.

From the Pro manual it looks like the Pro does support everything the X7 does. And it has level translation for all lines (unlike the X7). That's it, I'm picking this up!


Ya as an owner of Mega SD already, I've thought about just buying a Master ED X7 specifically for SMS games...
Me too, currently the only thing that stops me is that it seems to have problems with Japanese SMS and Mark III and will not work at all on SG-1000/SC-3000 (from what I can tell by googling). That and that there is no 44-pin version of it.

Offline Galron

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2020, 04:27 PM »
I know what a RTC is I was wondering how that helps with save logging...

Is it able to fix the sound issues, where sound cuts or glitched up after a reload of a save state on hardware (because under normal circumstances there is no way to save sound system directly)? Cause that would be rather impressive...

Quote
Me too, currently the only thing that stops me is that it seems to have problems with Japanese SMS and Mark III and will not work at all on SG-1000/SC-3000 (from what I can tell by googling). That and that there is no 44-pin version of it.

I forgot to mention one of the reasons I've wanted it was because I wanted to be able to do save states on SMS games. I'm also curious how the simulated YM chip on it sounds, as I use MegaSD, and hopefully its compatible with it.... With regular SMS you'd have to do some tweaking to the system, and add in the YM2413 FM sound module?

However, I've also read that the save states feature might not work too well on a MegaSG...

Quote
And it has level translation for all lines

What does this feature mean?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 04:39 PM by Galron »

Offline KRIKzz

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2020, 05:31 PM »
I have made a hardware ( https://www.neto-games.com.br/hardware/sonic_delta_40Mb_hardware.php ) based on Sega Doc and it works. But if I can get it working in Everdrive is a great addition to, because is more easy writing to SD, than burning EPROMS when tests in real hardware is needed.

Hmm, interesting, didn't seen it before. Seems sega did never used both bank switching hardware and sram remap to upper area at same time, only one of two features been used in commercial games as far as i know. As example Beyond Oasis used only sram remap feature or Super Street Fighter used only rom banking feature. As for EverDrive i tried your hack while ago and it didn't worked because game wasn't recognized as SSF mapper, you should put "SEGA SSF" in rom header instead of SEGA MEGADRIVE. After this fix i can ran the game but without saves due the lack of eeprof in ssf mapper. I wonder if you can detect everdrive ssf mapper and use sram instead of eeprom for saves? It would provide compatibility for older carts like edmd or x5/x3 where is no way to implement eeprom extension.

Quote
RTC for save states logging

What is this exactly? How does it work, how is it an improvement?

It helps manage your save files. Using timestamp you can easily found most recent one for example. Save file timestamp shown right in in-game menu

Offline Neto

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2020, 06:36 PM »
I have made a hardware ( https://www.neto-games.com.br/hardware/sonic_delta_40Mb_hardware.php ) based on Sega Doc and it works. But if I can get it working in Everdrive is a great addition to, because is more easy writing to SD, than burning EPROMS when tests in real hardware is needed.

Hmm, interesting, didn't seen it before. Seems sega did never used both bank switching hardware and sram remap to upper area at same time, only one of two features been used in commercial games as far as i know. As example Beyond Oasis used only sram remap feature or Super Street Fighter used only rom banking feature. As for EverDrive i tried your hack while ago and it didn't worked because game wasn't recognized as SSF mapper, you should put "SEGA SSF" in rom header instead of SEGA MEGADRIVE. After this fix i can ran the game but without saves due the lack of eeprof in ssf mapper. I wonder if you can detect everdrive ssf mapper and use sram instead of eeprom for saves? It would provide compatibility for older carts like edmd or x5/x3 where is no way to implement eeprom extension.

Quote
RTC for save states logging

What is this exactly? How does it work, how is it an improvement?

It helps manage your save files. Using timestamp you can easily found most recent one for example. Save file timestamp shown right in in-game menu



Thanks again for the reply. I am using regular SRAM ( which is more easy to handle at code ) not EEPROM. For test, If I cut some levels to down game size to up to 32Mb, I get the Everdrive working with SRAM. About SSF header this was done in older revisions of the Hack, but some emulators remaps banks 0 when I try to access SRAM.  Some emulators (Blastem to be more precise) devs only added support to this ROM hack, after I have assigned a custom serial number to game and removed the SSF header, and GPGX fails to run if SSF header is found.

Offline KRIKzz

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2020, 06:51 PM »

Compatiablity on the MegaSD, I've tried most games on it. Particularly some problem ones (that don't work to well with consoles, emulators, and the like) with unlicensed game, some strange mappers/copyright protections such as Beggar Prince. THese all work just fine.
There is still some work to get some of the Mega/Sega CD games to work, or improve on them as some have some bugs IIRC, dound cuts out, or other graphical issues.

Is there any particular games which you can remember? I'd like to look closer on them using mega-ed.

As far as i can see most of modern MCD cores/emulators uses simplified Mega-CD implementation. During MCD research i did made small test tool for check real hardware behaviours, because sega docs isn't detailed enough for building accurate core. If you ran this tool on Mega-SD or with emulators you will see that almost all tests fails. Checking how it really works probably taked largest part of project time.

Link to the cd test tool for anyone who want to check it: https://github.com/krikzz/MEGA-PRO/tree/master/mcd-verificator

Do not forget to backup your saves before than run it.


Thanks again for the reply. I am using regular SRAM ( which is more easy to handle at code ) not EEPROM. For test, If I cut some levels to down game size to up to 32Mb, I get the Everdrive working with SRAM. About SSF header this was done in older revisions of the Hack, but some emulators remaps banks 0 when I try to access SRAM.  Some emulators (Blastem to be more precise) devs only added support to this ROM hack, after I have assigned a custom serial number to game and removed the SSF header, and GPGX fails to run if SSF header is found.

I can force SSF mapper for your game, but carts with one time programmable fpga like x5 and x3 still not be able to support sram in way how you using it. May be you could include simple check to detect what type of mapper used and then use supported banck switching model?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 07:05 PM by KRIKzz »

Offline nuu

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2020, 07:08 PM »
Quote
Me too, currently the only thing that stops me is that it seems to have problems with Japanese SMS and Mark III and will not work at all on SG-1000/SC-3000 (from what I can tell by googling). That and that there is no 44-pin version of it.

I forgot to mention one of the reasons I've wanted it was because I wanted to be able to do save states on SMS games. I'm also curious how the simulated YM chip on it sounds, as I use MegaSD, and hopefully its compatible with it.... With regular SMS you'd have to do some tweaking to the system, and add in the YM2413 FM sound module?
Only if you have an export SMS, it's missing the YM2413 so you have to do a hardware mod. The original FM Unit is an external accessory (quite expensive now) for the Mark III only which adds the YM2413 to it, and the Japanese SMS got the YM2413 built-in from the start. Japanese SMS also has a more forgiving BIOS so that it can play both export SMS games (with an adapter) and SG-1000/SC-3000 games, while the export SMS can only play export SMS games due to region protection.


Quote
And it has level translation for all lines
What does this feature mean?
A few years ago, some older Everdrives were criticized for having insufficient voltage translation between 3V and 5V parts (although the situation was probably not as bad as it was first given the impression of). The Mega Everdrive X7 is the last Everdrive still in production that seemingly doesn't have sufficient level translation for all control, data and address lines (the X5 and X3 do though). From pictures it looks like the Pro has this though, so the criticism will probably be history with the release of the Mega Everdrive Pro.

Offline Galron

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2020, 07:38 PM »

Compatiablity on the MegaSD, I've tried most games on it. Particularly some problem ones (that don't work to well with consoles, emulators, and the like) with unlicensed game, some strange mappers/copyright protections such as Beggar Prince. THese all work just fine.
There is still some work to get some of the Mega/Sega CD games to work, or improve on them as some have some bugs IIRC, dound cuts out, or other graphical issues.

Is there any particular games which you can remember? I'd like to look closer on them using mega-ed.

As far as i can see most of modern MCD cores/emulators uses simplified Mega-CD implementation. During MCD research i did made small test tool for check real hardware behaviours, because sega docs isn't detailed enough for building accurate core. If you ran this tool on Mega-SD or with emulators you will see that almost all tests fails. Checking how it really works probably taked largest part of project time.

Link to the cd test tool for anyone who want to check it: https://github.com/krikzz/MEGA-PRO/tree/master/mcd-verificator

Do not forget to backup your saves before than run it.

Oh ya there is currently an issue with games with large size save files apparently on some systems. But that is something they are promising to fix in a later firmware update.... Shing FOrce CD is apparenlty one of these.


Thanks again for the reply. I am using regular SRAM ( which is more easy to handle at code ) not EEPROM. For test, If I cut some levels to down game size to up to 32Mb, I get the Everdrive working with SRAM. About SSF header this was done in older revisions of the Hack, but some emulators remaps banks 0 when I try to access SRAM.  Some emulators (Blastem to be more precise) devs only added support to this ROM hack, after I have assigned a custom serial number to game and removed the SSF header, and GPGX fails to run if SSF header is found.

I can force SSF mapper for your game, but carts with one time programmable fpga like x5 and x3 still not be able to support sram in way how you using it. May be you could include simple check to detect what type of mapper used and then use supported banck switching model?

Most of the fighting team games have copy protection on them. Some of the Piko stuff has copy protection on it too...

There are supposedly packs that Fighting Team sold that removed the copy protection issue. ANd some hackers have remove copy proteciton from some of the games (Fighting Team and Piko)..

Alternatively there are possibly stuff from the stoneagegamer that has the copy protection already removed, but I haven't tested those in emulators to check for sure.

Obviously there was also Pier Solar which had its own issues, but you have shown you have included that in your compatiblity.

Generally speaking there is no issues with any piko roms buyable thorugh Steam.

As for the CD games one of the fighting games I can't remember which has issues... ANd I think Shadowrun CD is said ot have issues... Of course some of this might have to do with MegaSG issues as well, but I don't have actual sega original hardware to test on. But I think there is a list of issues up on the internet somewhere, possibly through the terra onion forums.

Quote
A few years ago, some older Everdrives were criticized for having insufficient voltage translation between 3V and 5V parts (although the situation was probably not as bad as it was first given the impression of). The Mega Everdrive X7 is the last Everdrive still in production that seemingly doesn't have sufficient level translation for all control, data and address lines (the X5 and X3 do though). From pictures it looks like the Pro has this though, so the criticism will probably be history with the release of the Mega Everdrive Pro.

So I'm gonna assume this  probably isn't an issue for Terraonion, and Pro as far as things go. According to them they were very careful to keep the voltages within the margins of safety. It draws less then the Virtua Racing cart.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 07:48 PM by Galron »

Offline Galron

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2020, 07:53 PM »
Also another difference between how Terraonion and Krikkz does things, is that apparently MegaSD saves instantly and doesn't need a battery.  It just checks for a save and directly sends it to the microSD card and converts it.. I tmight not be 'constant' check to see if the saves exist, but might as well be... The situation though ends up with saves going to the microSD the moment you save, rather than it saving after you change to a different game. If I udnerstand things correctly.


Offline Galron

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2020, 07:56 PM »
I have made a hardware ( https://www.neto-games.com.br/hardware/sonic_delta_40Mb_hardware.php ) based on Sega Doc and it works. But if I can get it working in Everdrive is a great addition to, because is more easy writing to SD, than burning EPROMS when tests in real hardware is needed.

Hmm, interesting, didn't seen it before. Seems sega did never used both bank switching hardware and sram remap to upper area at same time, only one of two features been used in commercial games as far as i know. As example Beyond Oasis used only sram remap feature or Super Street Fighter used only rom banking feature. As for EverDrive i tried your hack while ago and it didn't worked because game wasn't recognized as SSF mapper, you should put "SEGA SSF" in rom header instead of SEGA MEGADRIVE. After this fix i can ran the game but without saves due the lack of eeprof in ssf mapper. I wonder if you can detect everdrive ssf mapper and use sram instead of eeprom for saves? It would provide compatibility for older carts like edmd or x5/x3 where is no way to implement eeprom extension.

Quote
RTC for save states logging

What is this exactly? How does it work, how is it an improvement?

It helps manage your save files. Using timestamp you can easily found most recent one for example. Save file timestamp shown right in in-game menu


Cool that timestamp thing is pretty cool idea.

I really haven't had a problem telling which save states are which on the MegaAD and there are only 8 of them, and I generally only use 1 or 2 of them at at ime anyways. But date system is cool...

Plus I assume if indie developer wanted to have  a game that used RTC, that woudl be available too?

Offline Galron

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2020, 07:58 PM »
Will you be using a system compatible with MD+ (CD Audo + patche cartridge games) as there are already many games out there using it? It woudl save alot of trouble if things were standardized.

Offline KRIKzz

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2020, 08:19 PM »
Will you be using a system compatible with MD+ (CD Audo + patche cartridge games) as there are already many games out there using it? It woudl save alot of trouble if things were standardized.

Mega-ED supports MCD mode1 (regular cartridge game + mega-cd hardware) Not sure why TO did made another standard at all (MD+) , their statement was like "because md+ easy to use compared to mega-cd" In my option would be better to release mcd driver which make MCD using as simple as MD+ but this all still be compatible with original cd addons and existing emulators. As you say it would save lot of trouble if things were standardized, so another copy of MCD Mode1 have no sense

Offline Neto

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2020, 09:27 PM »
I can force SSF mapper for your game, but carts with one time programmable fpga like x5 and x3 still not be able to support sram in way how you using it. May be you could include simple check to detect what type of mapper used and then use supported banck switching model?

Thanks. If you can do this and add full support for future versions like X7 will be fine (some friends has the X7 version). In some tests, I could see that the Everdrive OS is remapped to high addresses and this can be used to check if game is running over Everdrive and call appropriate routine.

Offline Galron

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2020, 04:19 AM »
Will you be using a system compatible with MD+ (CD Audo + patche cartridge games) as there are already many games out there using it? It woudl save alot of trouble if things were standardized.

Mega-ED supports MCD mode1 (regular cartridge game + mega-cd hardware) Not sure why TO did made another standard at all (MD+) , their statement was like "because md+ easy to use compared to mega-cd" In my option would be better to release mcd driver which make MCD using as simple as MD+ but this all still be compatible with original cd addons and existing emulators. As you say it would save lot of trouble if things were standardized, so another copy of MCD Mode1 have no sense

WHy not compatiblity for both?

Offline KRIKzz

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Re: Mega ED Pro
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2020, 11:38 AM »
Will you be using a system compatible with MD+ (CD Audo + patche cartridge games) as there are already many games out there using it? It woudl save alot of trouble if things were standardized.

Mega-ED supports MCD mode1 (regular cartridge game + mega-cd hardware) Not sure why TO did made another standard at all (MD+) , their statement was like "because md+ easy to use compared to mega-cd" In my option would be better to release mcd driver which make MCD using as simple as MD+ but this all still be compatible with original cd addons and existing emulators. As you say it would save lot of trouble if things were standardized, so another copy of MCD Mode1 have no sense

WHy not compatiblity for both?

Do you happen to had those annoying feel due the using different charger type by the electronics manufacturers, especially in the past when each on had their owns standard? This is that case. I think MD+ does not have advantages over mcd mode1, actually mode1 is more powerful and flexible.  Also mode1 can be used with real mega-cd, while MD+ only for premium flashcarts. Seems like at the moment only TO trying to push MD+, if this thing will ever become very popular i will be forced to implement it, but i hope world will stay at "single charger".
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 11:59 AM by KRIKzz »