Author Topic: Recommended systems  (Read 9522 times)

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Offline EmperorOfTigers

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Recommended systems
« on: November 13, 2017, 06:04 PM »
I have a NES with normal composite out and a RetroN HD but I'm wanting something better and would like advice on what would be best for me to pick up.

My normal NES is PAL which makes certain games slow and not as good. This is because I live in the EU. The RetroN HD is ok. It gets the basics good but the video quality is a bit off and more importantly compatibility isn't great.

I would like a nice crisp, low latency system that works with flashcards like the EverDrive N8 and Repro carts. Ideally support for Famicom games and expansion audio would be nice.

Thanks,
Empy.

Offline Jegriva

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 02:23 PM »
If you want to play on a modern display, the AVS (http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=78&osCsid=3536a8ae70fad06f2bbb22536cbdc3d0) is perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSidnlOhd4 (review by MLIG)

If you want to play on a CRT, I'd suggest an AV Famicom, the last revision of the japanese Nes.

Offline EmperorOfTigers

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 03:35 PM »
If you want to play on a modern display, the AVS (http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=78&osCsid=3536a8ae70fad06f2bbb22536cbdc3d0) is perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSidnlOhd4 (review by MLIG)

If you want to play on a CRT, I'd suggest an AV Famicom, the last revision of the japanese Nes.

Thank you for your reply. The AVS looks like a great system. I did see there is an NT Mini as well. How do they compete?

What makes the AV Famicom the best system for CRT?

Offline Jegriva

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 11:46 PM »
The NT Mini has a few bells and whistles (I think it goes up to 1080p), but it can also simulate  SHITTON of other consoles (more or less anything 8 bit and down). It also costs about 3 times the AVS.

Offline EmperorOfTigers

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 11:06 AM »
The NT Mini has a few bells and whistles (I think it goes up to 1080p), but it can also simulate  SHITTON of other consoles (more or less anything 8 bit and down). It also costs about 3 times the AVS.
Thank you. It sounds like it isn't worth it for me as I'm not really bothered about other 8bit systems. I think the AVS would be a good option for me.

Offline Alchemist

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 02:13 PM »
If you are interested in NES/FMC functionality only, really advantageous features of NT mini would be audio cores by kevtris. And anlogue video output capability. Audio cores emulate specific sound hardware which either not implemented in Everdrive at all or implemented rough or partially. Of course that hardware not found in AVS either. Analogue video output allows to connect NT mini to CRT television and even use Light Gun/Zapper, while AVS is limited to HDMI only and light pistols are out of question.
But despite this, I'd too still recommended to stick with AVS for use with Everdrive. Since there still are issues reported concerning compatibility between NT mini and this flash cartridge which are not easy to fix. And which MAY BE fixed in the future but currently are not.

Offline EmperorOfTigers

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 02:32 PM »
If you are interested in NES/FMC functionality only, really advantageous features of NT mini would be audio cores by kevtris. And anlogue video output capability. Audio cores emulate specific sound hardware which either not implemented in Everdrive at all or implemented rough or partially. Of course that hardware not found in AVS either. Analogue video output allows to connect NT mini to CRT television and even use Light Gun/Zapper, while AVS is limited to HDMI only and light pistols are out of question.
But despite this, I'd too still recommended to stick with AVS for use with Everdrive. Since there still are issues reported concerning compatibility between NT mini and this flash cartridge which are not easy to fix. And which MAY BE fixed in the future but currently are not.
Thank you. It sounds like the AVS would be the best bet for me as the odd light gun game can be played on my real NES with my CRT. While the AVS offers better compatibility with the EverDrive and is a lot cheaper than the NT Mini. The chips on the NT Mini seem good and would be cool but they are not perfect. It seems like for my purposes I would get on better with the AVS. Thank you for your help.

Offline Alchemist

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 05:49 PM »
What makes the AV Famicom the best system for CRT?
Not my field of expertise actually, there are people who known much more. But let's make short compilation of opinions spotted here and there.

Pros:
It's relatively late of the official 8-bit Nintendo consoles so there are more chances to lay your hands on a unit with a better physical conditions.
It's relatively inexpensive compared to more complex 'combine' models produced by 3rd parties under licnese.
It's almost the same as NA toploader but without lockchip, with FDS compatibility and native to Famicoms extra audio channels support.
It's the only official Famicom with detachable and replaceable gamepads. With NA form-factored ports though.
As name suggests this model has separate audio and composite video output unlike early models of Famicom and NES with RF-modulated output only. So the best audio and video quality. PPU and CPU were slightly upgraded as well AFAIR.
Due to similarity in layout and schematics to NA toploader there is HiDef mod for this model as well.

Cons:
If you are a NES-guy you'll have to connect NES cartridges via adaptor which is not very comfortable due to NA cart size.
If you are a Famicom-guy you lose microphone support and have to connect Light Gun in NA manner via gamepad port 2.
If you are a Famicom-guy feel and look of the unit itself is not authentic.

Probably forgot something but that's most of it. Correct me if some of the statements are wrong or false.

Offline nuu

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 12:59 AM »
If you are interested in NES/FMC functionality only, really advantageous features of NT mini would be audio cores by kevtris. And anlogue video output capability. Audio cores emulate specific sound hardware which either not implemented in Everdrive at all or implemented rough or partially. Of course that hardware not found in AVS either. Analogue video output allows to connect NT mini to CRT television and even use Light Gun/Zapper, while AVS is limited to HDMI only and light pistols are out of question.
But despite this, I'd too still recommended to stick with AVS for use with Everdrive. Since there still are issues reported concerning compatibility between NT mini and this flash cartridge which are not easy to fix. And which MAY BE fixed in the future but currently are not.
Doesn't a jailbroken Analogue NT allow to load roms though? Games not working on ED N8 may work on the Analogue?

As name suggests this model has separate audio and composite video output unlike early models of Famicom and NES with RF-modulated output only. So the best audio and video quality. PPU and CPU were slightly upgraded as well AFAIR.
An AV modded Famicom is not worse in audio and video quality than an AV Famicom though. The upgrades to CPU and PPU were probably only to make them cheaper to produce. Only very early Famicom CPUs and PPUs are actually missing features that was added in later versions. And these Famicoms are much more rare.

Offline Alchemist

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 04:49 PM »
Doesn't a jailbroken Analogue NT allow to load roms though? Games not working on ED N8 may work on the Analogue?
Speaking generally -- yes of course. But EmperorOfTigers clearly stated that he intends to use requested console with flash carts and cart reproductions. While jailbroken NT Mini eliminates cartridge as an entity.  ;)

An AV modded Famicom is not worse in audio and video quality than an AV Famicom though. The upgrades to CPU and PPU were probably only to make them cheaper to produce. Only very early Famicom CPUs and PPUs are actually missing features that was added in later versions. And these Famicoms are much more rare.
Thanks for the clarification. So the sentence in 'Pros' should read as that: "It does not require additional modding to have separate audio and video output unlike the earlier models with RF-modualtor".

Offline EmperorOfTigers

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 03:08 PM »
What makes the AV Famicom the best system for CRT?
Not my field of expertise actually, there are people who known much more. But let's make short compilation of opinions spotted here and there.

Pros:
It's relatively late of the official 8-bit Nintendo consoles so there are more chances to lay your hands on a unit with a better physical conditions.
It's relatively inexpensive compared to more complex 'combine' models produced by 3rd parties under licnese.
It's almost the same as NA toploader but without lockchip, with FDS compatibility and native to Famicoms extra audio channels support.
It's the only official Famicom with detachable and replaceable gamepads. With NA form-factored ports though.
As name suggests this model has separate audio and composite video output unlike early models of Famicom and NES with RF-modulated output only. So the best audio and video quality. PPU and CPU were slightly upgraded as well AFAIR.
Due to similarity in layout and schematics to NA toploader there is HiDef mod for this model as well.

Cons:
If you are a NES-guy you'll have to connect NES cartridges via adaptor which is not very comfortable due to NA cart size.
If you are a Famicom-guy you lose microphone support and have to connect Light Gun in NA manner via gamepad port 2.
If you are a Famicom-guy feel and look of the unit itself is not authentic.

Probably forgot something but that's most of it. Correct me if some of the statements are wrong or false.
Thank you for the list. It sounds like a great system but I am an NES guy so I would be concerned about using the adapter with such big carts.
As official hardware goes it sounds the best option though.
If you are interested in NES/FMC functionality only, really advantageous features of NT mini would be audio cores by kevtris. And anlogue video output capability. Audio cores emulate specific sound hardware which either not implemented in Everdrive at all or implemented rough or partially. Of course that hardware not found in AVS either. Analogue video output allows to connect NT mini to CRT television and even use Light Gun/Zapper, while AVS is limited to HDMI only and light pistols are out of question.
But despite this, I'd too still recommended to stick with AVS for use with Everdrive. Since there still are issues reported concerning compatibility between NT mini and this flash cartridge which are not easy to fix. And which MAY BE fixed in the future but currently are not.
Doesn't a jailbroken Analogue NT allow to load roms though? Games not working on ED N8 may work on the Analogue?

As name suggests this model has separate audio and composite video output unlike early models of Famicom and NES with RF-modulated output only. So the best audio and video quality. PPU and CPU were slightly upgraded as well AFAIR.
An AV modded Famicom is not worse in audio and video quality than an AV Famicom though. The upgrades to CPU and PPU were probably only to make them cheaper to produce. Only very early Famicom CPUs and PPUs are actually missing features that was added in later versions. And these Famicoms are much more rare.
The NT Mini can load ROMS and even ones an everdrive can't however I always prefer to use a real cartridge where I can and flash cards or repros if a real cart is impossible. Loading roms from the console itself is too close to normal software emulation for me personally.

As for a modded Famicom it makes sense that it could produce the same video quality but it sounds as though it generally still isn't as good.
Doesn't a jailbroken Analogue NT allow to load roms though? Games not working on ED N8 may work on the Analogue?
Speaking generally -- yes of course. But EmperorOfTigers clearly stated that he intends to use requested console with flash carts and cart reproductions. While jailbroken NT Mini eliminates cartridge as an entity.  ;)

An AV modded Famicom is not worse in audio and video quality than an AV Famicom though. The upgrades to CPU and PPU were probably only to make them cheaper to produce. Only very early Famicom CPUs and PPUs are actually missing features that was added in later versions. And these Famicoms are much more rare.
Thanks for the clarification. So the sentence in 'Pros' should read as that: "It does not require additional modding to have separate audio and video output unlike the earlier models with RF-modualtor".
This is very true and you're right. For me putting a cart into the system to play is important. It makes it feel more authentic to me.
Yeah not having to mod it is certainly an advantage. I and I'm sure many others can't mod a system like that.


I'm thinking the AVS would be my best bet. It is the most future proof, requires no adapters and it is a better price while covering what I want.
Thank you so much for the help everyone.

Offline nuu

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 12:36 AM »
The NT Mini can load ROMS and even ones an everdrive can't however I always prefer to use a real cartridge where I can and flash cards or repros if a real cart is impossible. Loading roms from the console itself is too close to normal software emulation for me personally.
With the small detail that there's no software emulation involved. I understand that not using a real cart feels inauthentic but not that using a flash cart or repro feels more authentic than using the internal flash cart of the Analogue NT. The only difference between using an external flash cart and the internal one is what pins on the console are used probably, and which mapper hardware emulation to use and such.

Quote
For me putting a cart into the system to play is important. It makes it feel more authentic to me.
You could stand a cart on top of it when playing it and try to fool yourself.

Quote
I'm thinking the AVS would be my best bet. It is the most future proof, requires no adapters and it is a better price while covering what I want.
Thank you so much for the help everyone.
I think the Analogue NT seems more future proof but I don't like the price tag.

Offline sqwirral

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 04:01 AM »
An AV modded Famicom is not worse in audio and video quality than an AV Famicom though. The upgrades to CPU and PPU were probably only to make them cheaper to produce. Only very early Famicom CPUs and PPUs are actually missing features that was added in later versions. And these Famicoms are much more rare.
I suppose there's ways around it but my modded original Fami shows jailbars, my AV is a nicer picture. I'd recommend AV for CRT use too. Forget those giant ugly grey carts and embrace the colourful plastic.

Offline Jegriva

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 10:51 PM »
In my experience, too, AV Famicom suffers from less intereferences with the picture.

Offline EmperorOfTigers

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Re: Recommended systems
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2017, 04:16 PM »
The NT Mini can load ROMS and even ones an everdrive can't however I always prefer to use a real cartridge where I can and flash cards or repros if a real cart is impossible. Loading roms from the console itself is too close to normal software emulation for me personally.
With the small detail that there's no software emulation involved. I understand that not using a real cart feels inauthentic but not that using a flash cart or repro feels more authentic than using the internal flash cart of the Analogue NT. The only difference between using an external flash cart and the internal one is what pins on the console are used probably, and which mapper hardware emulation to use and such.

Quote
For me putting a cart into the system to play is important. It makes it feel more authentic to me.
You could stand a cart on top of it when playing it and try to fool yourself.

Quote
I'm thinking the AVS would be my best bet. It is the most future proof, requires no adapters and it is a better price while covering what I want.
Thank you so much for the help everyone.
I think the Analogue NT seems more future proof but I don't like the price tag.
That makes a lot of sense. The NT Mini is clearly the ultimate solution but it is so expensive. I don't think I can justify it.
 
An AV modded Famicom is not worse in audio and video quality than an AV Famicom though. The upgrades to CPU and PPU were probably only to make them cheaper to produce. Only very early Famicom CPUs and PPUs are actually missing features that was added in later versions. And these Famicoms are much more rare.
I suppose there's ways around it but my modded original Fami shows jailbars, my AV is a nicer picture. I'd recommend AV for CRT use too. Forget those giant ugly grey carts and embrace the colourful plastic.
In my experience, too, AV Famicom suffers from less intereferences with the picture.
Yeah it sounds to me that for analog video the AV Famicom is the best. I guess the biggest issues are the lack of microphone and that it's dodgy to if it'll work on my PAL TV and how I would power it being UK based.
Which would be the best system if you wanted to RGB mod the system? Still the AV Famicom or would the original do better then?