Author Topic: Transfer Pak  (Read 3186 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Richardragon87

  • SNESAdvance Revival Coder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2021, 12:45 AM »
LOZ seems to do a number of things. First it cuts off the bottom of ther display, again largely just a row blocks. Link will also be cut off if he walks to lower part of the room to move into another. This doesn't really affect gameplay at all. Secondly the hud seems to be modified and squished itself (this continues into the menu if you lower it, which all seems more squished), but main playfield area doesn't appear to be squished. Link's sprite seems to be consistant to how he looks on tv dispaly. The title screen, all elements seem to be more squished with some cut off from the bottom. There are some other changes like the copyright and dates.

To me it seems by doing that it always gives me a really bad eye ache as the sprites are the same size but the map is the wrong ratio kind of like how you can have scale without the sprites and it makes stuff bigger while the background is still compressed and small. I tended to think this was used to be unscaled as I tend to prefer my games when playing on a GBA to be, but was suprised it resembled the way the PocketNES did it back then if not worse a bit... the normally unscaled feature always keeps the normal ratio as well as the sprite size at the cost of the screen being half the size that sometimes can be corrected by making the camera follow the sprite to access the top area. As Nintendo didn't do it like this and made the screen fit into the window having sprites bigger than how they would normally look like looks nauseating and off to me...

It's also very easy to see the difference they did with Final Fight... It zooms heavily in on the character, and the game scrolls both up and down in relation to where he is on the screen, where as in the original there is no up and down scrolling and you simply see the entire "street" (area you can move around), and the background on the same screen. The hud has been changed and moved around to compensate, for the fact that not everything is viewable on screen at once, unlike the original.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOp4VZRc_88

Here are comparison videos for 48 of the ports (most of the time its 'zoom and crop'):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xurqNOafU6Y

Of course I meant to say that I referred the SNESAdvance version and not the GBA port, their is hardly any differences between the screens... most were however put off by how Batman Returns did it for the application but as said many games never got changed actually a whole lot of SNES games didn't get changed, of course as you mentioned the GBA one was a whole remake of the SNES game but a SNES games normally graphics looked amazing on a AGS-101 screen without that tint and more.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 12:50 AM by Richardragon87 »
[quote Random dating spambotJ

Quote
Post changed:

Great, the photo didn't load! Does anyone know how to fix this?
In any case, my other photos can be viewed here, I will be glad to meet you, I love flirt))

P.S Richardragon87! Don't write me again, dude! You're in ignore list!

Offline Galron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2021, 01:08 AM »
If you are talking about emulators it all depends On mode you are set to... either zoomed in on a portion of the screen or it’s squishing the horizontal lines together vertically. It is physically impossible to display
240 or 224 lines into 160 line space, without loss of visual information.

One way you can tell 'squishing is taking place' is looking for games that are supposed to display a complete circle on screen. It will look like a vertically smashed ovoid. This can be seen in the Mario All-Stars introduction "Coin" for example. If something that's supposed to be a perfect "triangle" looks like its smashed that's another sign that graphics have been smooshed, some way... Legend of Zelda has the 3D triangles in the title screen for example on a screen where its properly displayed and 'stretched' to right 4:3 it will display as perfectly equidistant triangles. But because emulator on GBA or DS neither 'stretches into true 4:3' while at same time squishing the graphics vertically, it ends up making the 3d trinagles and tiatle screen look 'too tal'... Meanwhile a trifroce dispayed in the cutscene that tells the backstory of LTTP, looks 'too squished'... It should be both 'taller' and compensate for 4:3 (which emulation or the much smaller GBA and DS screens doesn't allow for).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb0tY1P2Xs0
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 03:52 AM by Galron »

Offline Galron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2021, 04:27 AM »
Also doesn't seem that SNES Advance even bothered to 'smoosh' the screens (something DSTwo Plus SNES emulator could do in its Mode 0, noticieable with the circular mario coin in the intro of All-Stars, or in Zelda: LTTP if one isn't careful).  The SNES Advance emulator simply cropped the top and bottom of the screens, with some minor 'autoscroll' to keep action focused on main sprite on the screen.

Cropping in middle is something DSTwo+ snes emulator can handle in third mode visual mode.

But cropping cerntainlly removes parts of the artwork like in the case of SMASH TV (see the top of charactersa heads, and their missing feet)



http://www.pocketsnes.net/snes_roms.htm

This will better show how much was cropped....

Notice it crops off the HUD section too (just below that statue's knee)!, and half the road... Perhaps some slight squishing too going on (although I can't get exact scale between both photos)...

As for your example of Batman Returns... It's highly cropped...



It crops out part of the lower part of the screen, and it crops out the dead space 'black line' at the top (the game has a kind of 'wide screen' like look to it, and that part is cropped out) down to the knee of the statue... Of course lots of other missing materials in the screenshot like well the road graphics, the HUD, and foreground fence...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i380sW3DWuM

This will better show how much was cropped....

Notice it crops off much of the HUD's area too!, and half the road... Perhaps some slight squishing too going on (notice that the stairs look to be a little shorter in the emulator than in the SNES screenshot, although I can't get exact scale between both photos, so it might just be a fluke)...

The road graphic may be missing in the emulator because it appears to be a mode-7 element, and emulator might not be able to handle most or all Mode 7's features. The foreground fence is tied to one of the other 'Mode' and its abilities to do layers which also seems to be missing from the emulator's compatibility.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 06:41 AM by Galron »

Offline Richardragon87

  • SNESAdvance Revival Coder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2021, 07:47 AM »
Also doesn't seem that SNES Advance even bothered to 'smoosh' the screens (something DSTwo Plus SNES emulator could do in its Mode 0, noticieable with the circular mario coin in the intro of All-Stars, or in Zelda: LTTP if one isn't careful).  The SNES Advance emulator simply cropped the top and bottom of the screens, with some minor 'autoscroll' to keep action focused on main sprite on the screen.

Cropping in middle is something DSTwo+ snes emulator can handle in third mode visual mode.

But cropping cerntainlly removes parts of the artwork like in the case of SMASH TV (see the top of charactersa heads, and their missing feet)



http://www.pocketsnes.net/snes_roms.htm

This will better show how much was cropped....

Notice it crops off the HUD section too (just below that statue's knee)!, and half the road... Perhaps some slight squishing too going on (although I can't get exact scale between both photos)...

As for your example of Batman Returns... It's highly cropped...



It crops out part of the lower part of the screen, and it crops out the dead space 'black line' at the top (the game has a kind of 'wide screen' like look to it, and that part is cropped out) down to the knee of the statue... Of course lots of other missing materials in the screenshot like well the road graphics, the HUD, and foreground fence...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i380sW3DWuM

This will better show how much was cropped....

Notice it crops off much of the HUD's area too!, and half the road... Perhaps some slight squishing too going on (notice that the stairs look to be a little shorter in the emulator than in the SNES screenshot, although I can't get exact scale between both photos, so it might just be a fluke)...

The road graphic may be missing in the emulator because it appears to be a mode-7 element, and emulator might not be able to handle most or all Mode 7's features. The foreground fence is tied to one of the other 'Mode' and its abilities to do layers which also seems to be missing from the emulator's compatibility.

Yeah I see that, but it is still weird that later games that were converted never did that in fact that was the only game that did that to the emulator it ran on, shmups are pretty much identical but would need quite a lot of settings changing to look almost identical but its worth trying out the Final Fight conversion from SNES to GBA (Not referring to the Final Fight GBA official game) and you'll see what I mean... as it never looked anything like their 1st project game that gets mentioned a lot on their page.
[quote Random dating spambotJ

Quote
Post changed:

Great, the photo didn't load! Does anyone know how to fix this?
In any case, my other photos can be viewed here, I will be glad to meet you, I love flirt))

P.S Richardragon87! Don't write me again, dude! You're in ignore list!

Offline Galron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2021, 08:29 AM »
Give me examples of what is converted and I can show you what was 'cut', zoomed in on, squished, etc. The converter program only works with a handful of games anyways, and its not easy to understand the various settings. Some of it does appear to be related to 'scale' and placement, and how it 'autoscrolls' on an object.

I mean its like trying to fit a rectangle into a square hole... SNES was 'square' and GBA only has "rectangle" half the size. You cant put one into the other without some of it being 'overscanned'... into regions you can't see...Or alternatively 'smooshed' and forced to fit vertically into the same space...
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 08:32 AM by Galron »

Offline Richardragon87

  • SNESAdvance Revival Coder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2021, 11:41 PM »
Give me examples of what is converted and I can show you what was 'cut', zoomed in on, squished, etc. The converter program only works with a handful of games anyways, and its not easy to understand the various settings. Some of it does appear to be related to 'scale' and placement, and how it 'autoscrolls' on an object.

I mean its like trying to fit a rectangle into a square hole... SNES was 'square' and GBA only has "rectangle" half the size. You cant put one into the other without some of it being 'overscanned'... into regions you can't see...Or alternatively 'smooshed' and forced to fit vertically into the same space...

May just be easier if I DM'd you the conversion so you can analyse it as a screen cap off my camera isn't worth what knowledge your so versed about as you know all aspects and dimensions and pretty much pointed out how different stuff that the SNES advance team explained which was too hard to understand but what you mentioned to me about it was easy to follow ^^ Of course you will need a EDGBA to test it any variant or version should work it... if you have it and let me know in a reply I'll send you the [p][g] one.
[quote Random dating spambotJ

Quote
Post changed:

Great, the photo didn't load! Does anyone know how to fix this?
In any case, my other photos can be viewed here, I will be glad to meet you, I love flirt))

P.S Richardragon87! Don't write me again, dude! You're in ignore list!

Offline Galron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2021, 12:06 AM »
Roms also work on the Ezflash Omega DE just as well. Same functionality... since SNES advance is only making a 'rom' and converting emulation into it, and formating and sectioning and cropping off sections of the graphics.

Offline Richardragon87

  • SNESAdvance Revival Coder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2021, 02:04 AM »
Roms also work on the Ezflash Omega DE just as well. Same functionality... since SNES advance is only making a 'rom' and converting emulation into it, and formating and sectioning and cropping off sections of the graphics.

Indeed they do, I remember when my project was unacknowledged by Smokemonster when he used to make those packs I was willing to allow my project revival so he could have made a folder for that rom set to work on GBA, obviously he objected it as it was filling up his updates page so I made a separate project on EP years ago and found out the Omega EZ flash was also able to run Super Metroid of course the EDGBA has the lock on it so it cant access the control deck alteration screen but according to someone who tested it they did confirm it worked but as it didn't process on my device I cant do anything on it.
[quote Random dating spambotJ

Quote
Post changed:

Great, the photo didn't load! Does anyone know how to fix this?
In any case, my other photos can be viewed here, I will be glad to meet you, I love flirt))

P.S Richardragon87! Don't write me again, dude! You're in ignore list!

Offline Galron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2021, 02:39 AM »
Here is comparison image for Final Fight SNES, vs emulator version... SNESAdvance on left, and regujlar sceen on right. If you are walking at the bottom fo the screen at the south edge of the road, the charactesr legs get cut off.. If you wlk to the north part of the street/sidewalk then the HUD gets cutt off...

Other weird odity is that you are seeing graphics in the overscan zone, that you wouldn't necessairly see on the TV.... See the bricks above the HUD? Whereas on SNES hud is right up to the edge of the screen.

So basically you can only see roughly 50% of the screen at any given time.... You can't fit a square into a rectangle and keep the original sprites size, without cropping them, or squishing the artwork. I'll send a picture of what squising looks like as a mode in SNES DS emulator.

Offline Galron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2021, 02:42 AM »
This is me cutting off the overscan to better match psoition being shown in both...

ONe can see its cutting off a section of the bottom of the screen, possilby some 'zooming' in but this could just me unable to get exact scale between the two photos.

Offline Richardragon87

  • SNESAdvance Revival Coder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2021, 02:54 AM »
Here is comparison image for Final Fight SNES, vs emulator version... SNESAdvance on left, and regujlar sceen on right. If you are walking at the bottom fo the screen at the south edge of the road, the charactesr legs get cut off.. If you wlk to the north part of the street/sidewalk then the HUD gets cutt off...

Other weird odity is that you are seeing graphics in the overscan zone, that you wouldn't necessairly see on the TV.... See the bricks above the HUD? Whereas on SNES hud is right up to the edge of the screen.

So basically you can only see roughly 50% of the screen at any given time.... You can't fit a square into a rectangle and keep the original sprites size, without cropping them, or squishing the artwork. I'll send a picture of what squising looks like as a mode in SNES DS emulator.

I recall the controls being reversed on that one so the coverter would classify down and up and up as down, most beat em ups never had that problem so it would be the other way round also this would be the desired angle if you can match it to the same as my screen.
[quote Random dating spambotJ

Quote
Post changed:

Great, the photo didn't load! Does anyone know how to fix this?
In any case, my other photos can be viewed here, I will be glad to meet you, I love flirt))

P.S Richardragon87! Don't write me again, dude! You're in ignore list!

Offline Galron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2021, 03:07 AM »
Eitherway you still lose screen space. Some will be cropped off...

Offline Richardragon87

  • SNESAdvance Revival Coder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2021, 10:40 PM »
Eitherway you still lose screen space. Some will be cropped off...

I'd rather take it unscalled than it being even more squished down could you imagine if the screen looked like how pocketnes did it! Those scaled + sprites always looked fine on NES games but the fact Snesadvance kept the sprites pixel by pixel the same way is likely the best besides all your really getting cut off from the parts is a unused ground that hardly is noticeable and the top above the score board... it may take a while to get used to but even if the torsos go under the screen you'll have a better experience with it that ONE was.
[quote Random dating spambotJ

Quote
Post changed:

Great, the photo didn't load! Does anyone know how to fix this?
In any case, my other photos can be viewed here, I will be glad to meet you, I love flirt))

P.S Richardragon87! Don't write me again, dude! You're in ignore list!

Offline nuu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2234
  • Karma: +98/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2021, 01:18 PM »
It still doesn't "cut" it for me. If I would still use emulation for SNES I would use a more modern system that doesn't have to "cut" corners like this. PSP, Wii, Rasperry Pi or a PC with bsnes and SNES controller adapters. GBA is a pretty crappy system to emulate SNES on.