Author Topic: could pause button be added to in game menu combo for use with pause button cont  (Read 2694 times)

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Offline butfluffy

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i'm going to get both my master system pads modded with pause buttons along with 50/60hz internal mod.
 i'm not sure exactly how the pause button mod works and maybe some work has to be done inside the console itself to allow a pause button from controller to work but would it be possible to add the pause button to the in game button combo for people who have this mod.
 it would be nice to be able to have pause+A+B has in game menu combo for example. this would get around the triggering the in game menu by accident with games like double dragon which uses both buttons and the pad together a lot.

Offline nuu

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Probably not, the pause button isn't a readable input button like the buttons on the joypad are. It fires an interrupt (NMI) when pressed, which jumps the code execution to a part of the rom where the game has its pause-related code. It's also impossible to detect the holding or the release of the pause button because of this, only the initial triggering.

Is it the following mod you are planning to use?
https://www.smspower.org/Development/JoypadPauseButton
It seems to wire a pushbutton on the joypad to an impossible button combination (up+down or left+right) and by also adding a small circuit to the joystick port in the console so that it fires an NMI when that combination is made, it will act just like the pause button. So yes, both joypad and console must be modded with this method. You could also just add a separate wire for the pushbutton wired directly to the NMI line, but in that case you would also need to add a separate connector on the console for the pushbutton's wire.
On the bottom of the page they warns that heavily used joypads may allow you to push in opposite directions and accidentally trigger a pause that way.

Offline butfluffy

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that kinda looks like the mod with the small pasuse button added to the controller.
 i'm going to get my console 50/60hz modded with consolesunleashed, the guy did a great job installed switch mod for my psio and also the ps1 in game reset mod he installed is great so far.
 when visiting the site i noticed he is doing the sms controller pause mod and i thought i will have some of that. triggering the pause by accident sounds off putting though.
 another issue is that i use extension cables for my sms pads and maybe the extension lead between the pad and console would disrupt the mod?
 i know this has been requested a few times already but being able to map the in game menu to sms controller 2 seems like it would be the best solution for sms. it's just too easy to trigger the in game menu with some games with only 3 button combo.
 while playing double dgragon for example and you perform a jump kick where you press both buttons A + B and use the pad for direction it is way too easy to trigger in game menu.
 for me the best combo so far is A+B+down but with some games like double dragon it is easy to trigger the menu while in the heat of gameplay.

Offline nuu

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Accidental triggering would only happen if the joypad is so worn and soft that it can be bent to push two opposite directions at once. If you mod a joypad you will hopefully use one that is in good shape, and replace the directional cross if it's too worn out. On that SMS power site they have another solution: "Adding a small adhesive pad to the center back of the directional cross to raise the pivot point can often fix this issue."


I think any solution for in-game menus, save states and such, that involves using buttons on the controller that are useable by games, is a really dirty solution that's just asking for problems.

Offline butfluffy

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thanks for the info. i will get the pause button mod done for sure on both my pads.
 it's a shame that sega decided to place the pause button on the system itself. in the words of AVGN "What Were They Thinking" lol

Offline nuu

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Well it was quite common at that time. I think Atari 2600 also has a pause button among several other buttons on the console?
Speaking of which, the pause button on the SG-1000 and Mark III / Master System are actually the same thing as the reset button on the SC-3000. It triggers the same NMI and would have the same effect in games.

another issue is that i use extension cables for my sms pads and maybe the extension lead between the pad and console would disrupt the mod?
This question is best asked to the one doing the mod for you.

Offline butfluffy

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yeah i will ask him about the extension cables.
 you are right atari 2600 had pause on the console. that was a pain also, but back in the old days we were not spoiled with pause on pad buttons.
 showing my age now lol.

Offline TKHX

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Would it be possible to allow these "impossible combinations" to be triggers for in game menu? For example U+D+1? With modded controller this could be triggered with pause button. This could not be pressed accidentally.

Unfortunately, right now it is not possible to set these impossible combinations as a trigger. Modded pause button on the controller does nothing in the settings menu, even though it works as a U+D combination in the game.

Offline nuu

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Yes technically possible. You could then build a controller that has a dedicated button for doing U+D+1 for example. I think FM Towns controllers actually works like that. Pressing the Select and Run buttons is really the same as pressing U+D and L+R. That way they could use the Atari/Sega/MSX joystick standard without adding additional pins for two more buttons.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 04:34 PM by nuu »

Offline TKHX

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I hope Krikzz will publish one more firmware for Master Everdrive to allow this. Now it looks like these combinations might be purposely excluded from the settings menu. Current firmware does allow two directional buttons, for example U+L or D+R or anything that is possible to do with standard controller. But U+D is not allowed, I tested with my special controller.

Offline TKHX

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I got a different controller with a pause button mod today. Strangely enough, with this controller I managed to add U+D+1 as a menu combination. (Also, L+R+1 worked or even U+D+L or L+R+U or pretty much anything.) So it looks like this depends on the implementation of the mod rather than the firmware. Anyway, I'm glad that this worked. No more accidental menu appearances for me!

If someone is interested in trying this out, a NES style controller from Retro Gamer and Backups worked for me. A mod done for original controller with parts from Consoles Unleashed did not. I have no idea why.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 10:37 PM by TKHX »

Offline nuu

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Nice!
I'm guessing there was something wrong with the other mod. The d-pad directions are just individual switches just like all other buttons on the controller, and they can all be read individually like normal. The only way they wouldn't be allowed, is if the programmer has deliberately written a piece of code that ignores the button read if disallowed combinations are pressed. But games seldom seem to do this, and thankfully Krikzz apparently doesn't either in the OS menu.
I guess Krikzz inserts his own controller reading code into games when save states are enabled, so it shouldn't matter if the game disallows opposite directions in its own controller reading code... I think.

Offline TKHX

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Actually, I have two original Master System controllers which are modded slightly differently. Other one has this Consoles Unleashed extra circuit board. The other one has the mod done directly without any extra circuit boards, only wires and resistors. Neither of them work with the menu but they do trigger the pause function as they should. Really strange!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 02:04 AM by TKHX »