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Messages - Galron

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1
First of all I'm not up to date on the types of G&W 'rom' types out there.. but many use .MWG, but these versions are made for simulator such as lr-gw. They will not work in a proper emulator. They are not the original 'roms' taken from the actual game & watch...


Quote
https://retropie.org.uk/docs/Game-%26-Watch/
Emulator: lr-gw

lr-gw is a simulator and not an emulator. This means that the games that can be played with it aren't actually the original games, but recreations of the games combined with the original artwork and an image of the handheld.
ROMS

Accepted File Extensions: .mgw

Place your Game & Watch ROMs in

/home/pi/RetroPie/roms/gameandwatch


https://fileinfo.com/extension/mgw

What is an MGW file?

An MGW file contains a recreation of an original ROM of a Nintendo Game & Watch video game. It contains all of the data for a Game & Watch game, which includes the original artwork, and can be played with the lr-gw simulator.
More Information

You will most likely only encounter MGW files if you enjoy playing retro Nintendo Game & Watch games. The game files are often acquired by gamers by downloading them from a retro gamer site. Gamers may also share games with each other via email.

The lr-gw simulator allows you to play games stored in MGW files. It works similar to an emulator but since the MGW files store recreation of games instead of the actual game data, it is considered a simulator.

NOTE: The Nintendo Game & Watch is a series of handheld electronic games developed by Nintendo from 1980-1991 that was succeeded by the Game Boy. The "MGW" acronym comes from the "Mr. Game & Watch" character, which is a combination of characters from the Game & Watch series.


You'll notice that it seems that "rom" files for every G&W game for mame come with two files... The separate artwork and the actual rom. That's because the rom doesn't display artwork... It takes outside interface to recreate the appearance of what would be displayed on screen, and display the correcct image that recreates that screen.

The roms are often desigated as "GNW" (Game N' Watch) or something like that, but not usually any extensions.


https://edgeemu.net/details-161422.htm


2
Quote
Never mind emulation and simulation and their countless definitions.

I don't understand your definition of "software" as you like to count Game & Watch graphics to it. I guess because it's artistic work and copyrightable?

I call it hardware because I think of software as something that is stored as digital data (discrete values) while hardware is the physical side of the product. Vector files such as SVG is indeed digital data but the painted graphics on the bezel and glass as well as the liquid crystal segments are all of physical nature. The SVG files produced when "dumping" the graphics is an attempt to record that hardware in digital form.

SVG files are not 'hardware'. They are simply external 'photo files'... Like a 'slide show'... All its doing is just taking a picture and displaying another picture. In order to make it 'work' and show the right images on screen.  It takes 'external' software layer to do that... that interfaces with the hardware parts of the emulator.

There is no way to have 'hardware' displayed screen for G&W short of hooking up the emulator to an actual Game & Watch screen. Due to the nature of how LCD screens work.

Another way to look at it is, G&W/LCD game roms do not contain graphics data at all... They only contain data to 'turn on'/'turn of' and cycle through a number of different  items on a LCD screen. THat means every element of a screen only has two states, on and off... Pictures are not themselves  a screen.... Software layer of the emulator has to 'know what rom' is being used, then it has to load the correct SVG (photo files), then it has to know when to load which files to act like 'off-on' situation, but phots are static they don't have 'off-on' modes, they simply have a single state. So to 'simulate' the original function it literaly has to know when to load specific photos that 'look' like the original off and on states. That's alot more work than original Rom had to do... something had to do the translations of that data on the fly and simulate the imagery...

The emulator takes it further by keeping archive of all the artwork/backgorunds for a number of games whith it loads seperately from the rom, for each game... Likewise each screen for each game has to be simulated, by cycling to the right image (similar to a slide carousel), which shows the correct onscreen functions for each action. But that's not how the original functioned as far as how it 'activated' on screen art, which was literaly 'on or off' switching.

3
EverDrive GB / Re: Max Capacity MicroSD compatible?
« on: October 20, 2021, 05:43 PM »
The reason nointro didn’t have all the roms is it tried to verify quality of the dump before they can be added.

There might be fake “no-intro” sets out there where someone uploads them and claims they are nointro, but have mixed and matched good roms thrown in...

Besides the way I see if it isn’t broke no reason to fix it, but if I have to patch somthing to fix it, or make it compatible I will. If I need to try downloading a new rom for a game that doesn’t seem to work right to see if it’s rom issue I will. But I’m not gonna do that for every file unless there is a problem.


4
I'm willing to pay for Fram.

It's actually one of the perks in the Omega Definitive Edition for the GBA...

https://www.ezflash.cn/omegade-en.pdf

5
EverDrive GB / Re: Max Capacity MicroSD compatible?
« on: October 19, 2021, 11:07 PM »
Ok you don't update the whole set. I would prefer to update all ROMs in a set unless I know exactly what ROMs has been changed and added, but it just takes too much time. Especially since I have flashcarts for almost all consoles I own.
The genre sorting is only for clean no-intro ROMs. I have a separate "hacks" folder for any patched ROMs.

That's a bit redundantly pointless... the idea of no-intro is that they are tested to be 'perfect' dumps... The only time they update 'no-intro' set is to add in newly discovered roms, roms from indy releases (like Piko Interactive). Generally speaking even in updated romsets, the dates will remain the same as for when they were originally dumped (also check the "hash" to see if they are the same file as well)... It there is no point in replacing the same "hash" with another copy of the same "hash'....

I don't need to update all roms in my genre plus folders if they are already perfect dump roms to begin with.

"goodsets" (which I don't recommend) throw together anything and everything, and can change dumps 'hash' each release... I don't put gooddumps on my flashcarts unless a certain 'rompatch' requires a specific goodset rom, or if the gooddumps have something obscure that haven't been verified and redumped to be included in no-intro sets...

All my hacks tend to go into hacks folders unless its a hack to fix a broken compatibility of a no-intro rom... Like for example no-intro version of Road Rash GB, won't work on GBC or GBA... Neither will the original cartridge... I don't mind including a working copy in my genre folders because otherwise there is no way to enjoy that game on GBC or GBA...

6
EverDrive GB / Re: Max Capacity MicroSD compatible?
« on: October 18, 2021, 08:02 AM »
A realistic problem is, in the near future, we can’t buy MicroSD <64GB easily.
Just like that we can’t find any brand new 2GB MicroSD on sale currently.
That means despite of >32GB necessity, we will have to buy >32GB MicroSD in the future no matter how you think about it.

Very true, in most cases as they phase out "smaller' cards, smaller cards become more expensive, while the more common larger cards become cheaper. I've seen sometimes where a 32gb micro sd was cheaper than the 16gb micro sd for example. Sometimes that's caused by sales, on the larger card.

7
EverDrive GB / Re: Max Capacity MicroSD compatible?
« on: October 17, 2021, 06:48 PM »
What do you do if you get your hands on a newer no-intro set?

Sorting alphabetically is very problematic yes. It makes games hard to find and you don't remember what games you have been playing.

I sort games after genre which makes games very easy to find, and forces you to look up games that you have never tried before so that you know which genre to sort them under. I leave large unsorted folders for games I'm not familiar with or haven't had time to sort yet. Although I only have one copy of each ROM in a set it still takes forever to do, and updating the set is hell. Especially on systems with large game libraries.

What do you do if you get a new No-Intro set?

Only difference is a few new games get added in when those are updated, mainly 3rd party unlicensed indie stuff, recent releases...

All I have to do is delete the older folder put the new folder in... The only reason I have that back up anyways is for making sure I have a list of files available for 'patching' if patch comes out that I'm interested in, to avoid patching my main category files.

Also is easy for basic region stuff... Use search function for "Japan", Europe, "World," USA, etc, and then put them into separate folders.... Then if there is something I'm looking for to sort it into main folders I just use the 'search function' to find it... and copy/paste....

I rarely have to change anything in main categories I use in the main section of the micro sd, because the roms work, and I don't expect them to be replaced... with 'alternate' roms that change anything... if they work I'm not likely going to go out of my way to replace them with a slightly modified 'expanded' no-intro set...

Quote
I sort games after genre which makes games very easy to find, and forces you to look up games that you have never tried before so that you know which genre to sort them under. I leave large unsorted folders for games I'm not familiar with or haven't had time to sort yet. Although I only have one copy of each ROM in a set it still takes forever to do, and updating the set is hell. Especially on systems with large game libraries.

This... this is why genre is my main type of sorting.... I learn more about the games that way, it helps me to try out new games that are 'similar' to ones I enjoy, etc.... It's just all around easier to find stuff... Yes I had large unsorted files, but I've taken the time to sort them when I had free time, at this point there is very little that is left to sort... I'm not gonna be moving or touching or replacing those at this point... Unless its to replace a game that 'doesn't work with a game that does work (if there turns out to be a compatibility issue, or buggy rom, and and a patch is neded to fix it).... That's why I maintain a non-working folder as a type of "genre" just to keep track of the games that won't work....

Like I said, the no-intro set is a back up just to make sure I have fresh clean files for patching available, or replacing any files in main genre folders if any roms accidently are deleted or 'patch corrupted'.

As for 'cross-sorting' taking an example Mario and Luigi's Superstar Saga... Ok right now the best version of the game is with a rumble patch that adds rumble back onto the console itself (if you have a rumble capable flashcart) without having ot use Gameboy Player + gamecube controller... It's now become my ideal main rom for the game... I delete the 'no-intro' unpatched from the category it was in "RPG Genre", and in "Mario Games" IP category. That's the two main categories its in...

I leave patched rom in their place, patch rom is also under 'special category" in the "rumble games" category, so that I'm able to test all the games with rumble abilities, and not have to hunt for rumble games I'll probalby forget about mixed around many different genres...

The clean copy no-intro just remains in no-intro backup folder. Assuming I need it for something, or for future patches. It'll be easy to find wiht 'search function' at my computer if I need to make a new patched rom. THis takes less than 20 seconds really to patch and saved the patched file elsehwere, and then copy and paste the patched files to relevent folders. (Genre, IP, and Rumble) in this case.

But, ya it was several days of work to set up for each flashcart. (I.E consoles)... but once set into place I find my method makes everything easier for me, when testing new games coming out, the genre folders are already there to place it into which ever are applicable. via simple copy and pastes.

8
EverDrive GB / Re: Max Capacity MicroSD compatible?
« on: October 16, 2021, 11:00 PM »
It sounds like he is on EDGB but is using a very wasteful ROM organization method with multiple copies of the same romset many times over. It must take forever to keep up to date unless he is using some kind of automated process.

I own EDGB and EDGB X7.

At the most a single rom tends to be in 3-4 "used" categories, and one 'backup (this is an unsorted no-intro backup, only sorting is by 'region')' (One for its system type GB, GBC, SGB or hybrid (this makes it easier to get to them if I'm using it on a certain system), another for its genre, and another for its series, if applicable). There is a 'technical/special' category but that's got very few items,mostly stuff that won't work on GBAG, or needs specific hardware to work. Where something is incompatible altogether (or with the largest subset of platforms) I don't have them in any other folder, to avoid accidentally useing them when testing something out. So they are only in the special/broken category (or at most also in the no-intro backup)...

Once roms are in place I don't have to change them, or update them.  Other than patching roms and I usually do that manually. But patches don't come out all that much. But yes it took a very long time to do the categorizing. But it really helps me avoiding forgetting the name of something or where I placed it....

Saves are shared by all instances of the same file, as long as the roms shares the same name, no matter what folder it's in.

IF this was a PC i'd use a 'shortcut' file, but that's not possible on a flashcart.
 
Basically the story in short is that I was using a 8gb flashcart before... It was mostly US a few UK stuff, and some translated Japanese stuff... It was covering aroudn 7 gb or so of the microsd in the way I was categorizing things on it... However, I had noticed I had cut out most of the japanese only game roms too, or japanese gamers with considerable differences. Plus a bunch of Indies had come out, and the gigleak which I needed space to add to the card, but it was short...

It added up to roughly  9gb total, to add all that stuff and have the categories... Which is over what can fit on an 8gb rom (which I had been using previously).

I double checked recently and discovered I had traded for a MicroSD from somewhere else (or rather recycled the old one for it) of 16 gb, which covers everything. I just need to still double check if I added Japanese only stuff I hadn't included before.

It's only around 14gb, because I keep the no-intro set backed up on it.

Plus pc emulator, patching software etc on the Micro SD when I'm working with it on the PC.

I know alot of people use straight up alphabetical categorization (like smokemonster packs), but I find that's confusing and slow to find stuff (in order to go through all the pages of roms)... Even he has some redundancies, and miscellaeous confusing folders to follow.

9
I think you meant the hardware side. The ROM is the software side and the physical bezel and liquid crystal segments would be considered hardware.
But yes, it's fascinating. The images are made in vector form to mathematically preserve the shapes of the artwork as much as possible and making resizing without hurting the resolution possible. Hopefully it's enough information to manufacture a good replacement screen for a G&W game.


nuu

Most G&W simulators are software that simulate both G&W hardware and software as a whole, focusing on the look and feel, not what's under the hood. They do not contain a single bit of code of the original, wether hardware, if that makes sense, or software.
Isn't that exactly what I was saying?

I mean the artwork/photos/graphics are all external 'software' (in this case the GUI/display for the emulator).... It's simulated environment not actual environment. Because its impossible to have an actual LCD display... Game & Watches don't 'display' graphics they just turn on/off sections of a LCD display. The only emulation of the hardware is on the firmware side of things, the rom, the inner workings/calcuations.

In theory though if you had an actual Game and Watch LCD 'display' for a specific game you could wire it up to the 'emulator' to produce original results of how original operating board would have functioned (and have it function on the LCD display), but that would be somewhat redundant.

https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Game_%26_Watch

Quote
Graphics
Even when a Game & Watch game's ROM had been dumped, one of the biggest challenges with accurately emulating it was with how the Game & Watch displayed graphics. Rather than by sending output to an LCD display like most cartridge-based handhelds do, Game & Watch games (as well as most other handheld electronic games from the same time) displayed graphics by lighting up pre-drawn LCD segments, like a calculator. To recreate this as accurately as possible, MAME uses .SVG files traced from high-quality scans of the LCD screen, allowing graphics in supported Game & Watch games to be displayed crisply at any resolution without the loss of any detail. While this is the most accurate way to recreate the LCD graphics outside of obtaining the original art from Nintendo, it is a difficult and time-consuming process as not only does the LCD need to be scanned at a high resolution with all segments lit up to capture all of the graphics but the scans must be traced very carefully to faithfully recreate the original artwork.
SVG are graphics files...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics

Ok, I see where the confusion is.

I just meant that it's a piece of software that, on its own, simulates the results of the hardware and software that a G&W system consists of.


There is a difference between 'simulator and emulator'... But the use of terms such as 'simulating"/'simulate'/'simulated', or 'Simulation" doesn't necessarily mean running on a "simulator". Other forms of simulating might be using 'models', or 'graphs', 'acting' or some other sort of thing (to show or reinact the processes or 'end of function'/results). It might not necessarily be real time. See related term simulacrum.

https://serc.carleton.edu/sp/library/simulations/index.html

This distinction ends up with people giving difference answers depending on their contexts....

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2174638/whats-the-difference-between-emulation-and-simulation

Dictionary wise they are very different terms (with several meanings each)... Simulate/simulating (verb) and simulation (noun) are connected.. while Simulator is its own odd-one out term....

 simulation noun
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sim·​u·​la·​tion | \ ˌsim-yə-ˈlā-shən
\
Definition of simulation

1 : the act or process of simulating
2 : a sham object : counterfeit
3a : the imitative representation of the functioning of one system or process by means of the functioning of another a computer simulation of an industrial process
b : examination of a problem often not subject to direct experimentation by means of a simulating device


 simulate verb
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sim·​u·​late | \ ˈsim-yə-ˌlāt
\
simulated; simulating
Definition of simulate

transitive verb
1 : to give or assume the appearance or effect of often with the intent to deceive : imitate
2 : to make a simulation of (something, such as a physical system)

 simulator noun
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sim·​u·​la·​tor | \ ˈsim-yə-ˌlā-tər
\
Definition of simulator

: one that simulates especially : a device that enables the operator to reproduce or represent under test conditions phenomena likely to occur in actual performance

Emulator has multiple meanings.

Hence likely the main reason why emulator and people saying 'simulate', or 'simulating' or 'simulation of' depending on the construction of their sentence, has nothing to do with 'simulator' but can be used in the context of an 'emulator'...


It also helps to see what differences where emulate and simulate fit on a thesaurus for similar meanings...

Simulator does not have any words closely connected to it on WEbster's side, but thesaurus.com has a few. But non that are particuarly relevent in relation to the technical field usages of the term.

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/simulator

Quote
    actor
    bum
    charlatan
    cheat
    counterfeit
    counterfeiter
    fake
    faker
    four-flusher
    fraud
    humbug
    impostor
    mountebank
    phony
    playactor
    pretender
    pseudo
    put-on
    sham
    shammer
    shark
    sharp
    slicker
    whip
    bunco artist
    con artist
    flimflammer
    hoser
    quacksalver

... While emulator does... Although the thesaurus equivalents for 'emulator' are largely useless in the context of computers and more in the case of an 'actor' or 'con', or a 'mimic', 'ditto' (another word for 'copy'), and copy (the later has overlap with simulation/simulate)...

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/emulate

Webster's thesaurus alternate synonyms...
Synonyms & Antonyms of emulator

Quote
1 as in ape, impersonator

Synonyms & Near Synonyms for emulator

    ape, impersonator, impressionist, mimic

    parrot

    aper, copycat, copyist, echo, follower, imitator, rubber stamp, wannabe (also wannabee)

2 as in rival, competitor

Synonyms & Near Synonyms for simulation

   
Quote
miniature, mock-up

    carbon, carbon copy, clone, copy, dummy, dupe, duplicate, duplication, facsimile, imitation, mock, reduplication, replica, replication, reproduction

    counterfeit, fake, forgery, knockoff, phony (also phoney), rip-off, rubber stamp, sham

    reconstruction, re-creation

    image, likeness, semblance, shadow

    impression, imprint, print

    approximation, reincarnation, version

    extra, reserve, spare

[/quote]

 
Synonyms of simulate

Quote
to present a false appearance of

    cosmetics that simulate a suntan

Synonyms for simulate

    act, affect, assume, bluff, counterfeit, dissemble, fake, feign, pass (for), pretend, profess, put on, sham

Words Related to simulate

    dissimulate, impersonate, let on, masquerade, play, playact, pose

    forge, imitate

    camouflage, conceal, disguise, mask

    feint

    malinger

Phrases Synonymous with simulate

    make believe

Surprisingly while not exactly synonyms to each other, many of the synonyms or near synonyms for "simulation" might have more in common with a "emulator" in the technical field sense. At least when taking 'reconstruction/cloning/copying' into account.

But both simulate/simulation and emulator have similar meanings in general terms of 'immitation'/phony, etc... Which is not particularly as useful in field of technical uses of the terms.

So anyways the final point being here, if someone says "emulator' has 'simulated' somethign they aren't saying an emulator is 'simulator'.. Simulators and "simulated/simulation/simulate/simulating" have unconnected meanings to "simulator"...

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/06/how-snes-emulators-got-a-few-pixels-from-complete-perfection/

As stated in the article....
Quote
Enlarge / For a truly perfect emulator, just making ~3,500 commercially released SNES games playable isn't enough. Every function of the system has to be simulated with cycle-perfect accuracy, too.

But I'm digressing again, and going way outside the scope of this original discussion...




10
EverDrive GB / Re: Max Capacity MicroSD compatible?
« on: October 15, 2021, 04:10 PM »
Formating software should work. Although that's not a indication that the operating system can still read space over a certain amount. It really depends.

11
I know of the show, but not much about the game. Just that the N64 game is put on a list of best N64 games that never made it to to US. I was just pointing out I think it was a game based on that show. Although I might be thinking of another game with a similar premise.

12
EverDrive GB / Re: Max Capacity MicroSD compatible?
« on: October 14, 2021, 07:17 PM »
So basically its had to do with how I sort things...

First layer is "BY Genre", "By series", "Special", and 'unsorted'.

Genre is fairly basic right now and I haven't completed all my sorting there, but its general stuff like RPG, Puzzle, Action-adventure, misc, etc... I put Arcade, platformers and shooters under action category. Each of those get broken down int subcategories as well... In these folders I don't mind mixing and matching GB/GBC, and hybrid games together since they are used primarily for Gameboy Player, and GBA use. That's roughly 244 mb, nothing big yet.

Then 'by series', this is basically by IP, I have most nothing finished there in my categorization... But this would cover IP series like games that have Disney characters but cover more than one genre.

Special is basically split by operating system, or special chips, or interesting quirks, all or most of the GB, SGB, Hybrid, and GBC games. 3d games folder, GB classic folder (only games that were for GB Classic but not Super Gameboy), GB-GBC Hybrid, GBC Enhanced (these are games that were originaly for GB Classic, but got special pallets on the GBC), GBC-GBA Enhanced (games that open extra features if played in GBA, like GBA store in the Zelda Oracle series), GBC Only folder (these are GBC cartridge games, also work in GBA of course), SGB for super gameboy stuff, and folders for games that use SPeech clips and video clips (again 'special technology' in this case, not something you generally expect out of GB/GBC games).

Super Gameboy is also split into its own subfoldres mainly based on region, and 'broken' (usually mapper issues, like Robopon, Roboponcots, because these had special features and used built in IR on the cartridge). A section for "Translated SGB Roms".

Compatiblity issues (these are games that have issues between different versions of GB, and GBA, etc. For example folder for GB only, games that have issues on GBC, a folder for games that have issues on GBA or GBA SP, games that originally had rumble built in (these roms may work with rumble on GBP, but I haven't tested it), folders for IR Port compatible games, motion sensor games, GB camera roms, and "unusable" (these are games which X7 can't handle at all due to lack of mappers).

So far this mainly covers 1.75 gb for all the stuff I have categorized in special, and that includes any overlaps and roms sharing multiple categories.

Unsorted covers a bunch of misc. stuff like betas, SAG rompacks, Gigadump stuff, back up rom patches, 'reskin" category (these are games that got prots across multipel regions but each one has a totally diffedrent reskin like Ghost busters and  Garfield, or Radical Rex based games (Baby T-Rex, Agro Soar, Edd the Duck We're GBack", etc, or Crazy Castle (reskined as anything from Bugs Bunny Mickey Mouse, to Hugo). Many of my rom hacked games (these include color hacks for games, and other fun stuff). Intend to have complete No-Intro set here as well (I have at least partial no-intro set in place but it might be missing some). Lots of homebrew stuff too. THere is an unusable category here too for anything that doesn't work with current mappers on the everdrive (this mostly being unlicensed stuff, and prototypes).

I need to double check that I have all the japanese games from no-intro GB and GBC collecitons, as I may have left those off due to space issues originally.

In anycase my files take up roughly 4.85 gb of data on the 14.8 gb capacity (16 gb micro sd).

There is an extra 9.97 space it seems.

It may be that I already moved roms from a 4gb or 8gb card because japanese and/or european stuff (complete romset) didn't fit on the micro sds I previously used. SO I might have already 'fixed' the issue if I had upgraded to 16gb.


I know I had more troubles with GBA stuff and recently went from I think 64 to 128 gb (for use on my Omega DE) because it takes up more space with the romhacks/translations, GBA Video carts, and other special stuff, ended up taking up 78.6 GB... But that also includes 'some' stuff for Goomba purposes (rumble compatible games) as well (but that's not alot of the space). The general categories I have setup take up 40 gb, but there is full backup of nointro set as well (for case of finding fresh roms for patching in future).

Also I notice I tend to put pc emulators on the micro sds as well for testing roms when I'm adding or patching roms.

13
EverDrive GB / Max Capacity MicroSD compatible?
« on: October 14, 2021, 02:47 AM »
Will a 32gb or 64gb or 128gb work... Don't expect needing much larger than 32 or 64 (but sometimes 'larger' is cheaper)... But found 16gb was too small to keep my selection of romhack/translated games (GB, Super Gameboy, GBC, Gameboy Player/GBA enhanced selection, and other special purpose categories), plus full set of games from every region, plus have space for all the categories I use.

14
My top 10 would be all the RPGs, and adventure games, plus Japanese Castlevania version... There is also some really cool looking interactive movie type game with giant robots that would be very cool to play in english. Neon Genesis Evagelion I think?

15
FXPAK (SD2SNES) / Re: Max Capacity Mcrosd on SD2SNES Pro/FXPak Pro?
« on: October 14, 2021, 01:42 AM »
Brilliant thanks! That's the kind of information I was looking for!

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