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Offline Galron

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2021, 06:45 PM »
I am for having multiple options and giving people multiple optionsl..

Having all in one GBA and GB/GBC flashcart is 'amost' impossible.

There was once designed a bulky method that combined Super Gameboy and Super Gameboy Advance, into one card through a 'bridge' used by Flash2Advance, it more or less was a addon cart that fit into GB/Super Gameoby, and the SD2Advance fit into the top of it. Creating a kind of bulky long card with both features. Still nothing that fits the motherload of having both in 'a small form factor' that part of the public wants in a card.



Even if it is potentially possible, if people want it so they can have 'slim' mode card that fits int heir GBA without having to switch cards, it would be impossible..... So the many requests to have both GBA and GBC, and 'keep it small' is impossible. Short of emulation which is 'bad' and there isn't likely to be improvements....

So the next best thing is the Ezflash method for at least making an option to use dustcover sized cart, or regular sized cart. DE throws this out of course for a reasonable reason, it's extra rumble and other features need full size GBA card. But it still manages to keep GBA slim in most gba devices, it only stick out a little on a DS Lite.

But I completely understand people who want to play GB/GBC on their GBA and not have it hang out by 2 inches as well, so I understand their wanting an option out there that fits 'smoothly' in the system, something the same size as GBA slot (this interest has come up in many threads). If the option existed I would even buy one.

Of course there are plenty of alternate methods for carts that fit in Super Gameboy. Different brands, BennVenn, Ezflash, Everdrive, etc. So that's always possible... No one is asking for those methods to be 'replaced'. There would always be needs for full size carts as well. Especially if they are going to primarily used on DMG/Pocket/Light/SGB/SGB2/Color systems.

As for 'SNES" emulation, ugh get a DS (with certain flashcarts), or PSP and hack it... GBA and emulators for it can do almost nothing.... And usually with no sound... There just isn't enough power for hte overhead needed to run SNES on GBA, without total conversions of the code as done with many of the SNES to GBA ports that came to the system officially...


Offline Richardragon87

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2021, 07:18 PM »
As for 'SNES" emulation, ugh get a DS (with certain flashcarts), or PSP and hack it... GBA and emulators for it can do almost nothing.... And usually with no sound... There just isn't enough power for hte overhead needed to run SNES on GBA, without total conversions of the code as done with many of the SNES to GBA ports that came to the system officially...

I did hear that the DS version of the then obsolete version of SNESAdvance/PocketSNES mostly went their ways to make it run a lot better than how it did on the GBA but still had the same issues so in the end they gave up working on it too, it's interesting to mention the development of PocketSNES mainly lasted just a few months as the DS came out shortly in-between of it. Though as the DS cart cannot work on a AGS-101 screen nothing looked more spectacular seeing it run on the device even though it had no sound and as for those SNES to GBA ports that came out they were badly tinted and worst of all the ports were made so the sprites would be bigger than the map design itself is really jarring especially when you compare the Contra Alien Wars version to the GBA port and more.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 07:20 PM by Richardragon87 »
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Offline Galron

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2021, 09:16 PM »
The best GBA emulator on DS was included in Super DSTwo +. Not perfect but largely playable with many games. It did have sound, and enough buttons to handle the games.

https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/DSTwo_Plugin_Emulators

The best emulator though is on PSP as it uses a version of SNES9X as I recall.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 09:34 PM by Galron »

Offline Richardragon87

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2021, 09:23 PM »
The best GBA emulator on DS was included in Super DSTwo +. Not perfect but largely playable with many games. It did have sound, and enough buttons to handle the games.

https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/DSTwo_Plugin_Emulators

The best emulator though is on PSP as it uses a version of SNES9X as I recall.

I must admit it looks pretty good - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGHa87LVlTM

But the sheer size of holding it would be jarring to hold onto and play for a long period of time, I think I'd make do with SNESAdvance when I get around to making stuff work better. I always found the SP model the best easiest comfiest way to play games on, problem with the DS and 3DS is they eventually become obsolete due to how big they are and how complex is to play them continuously.
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Offline Galron

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2021, 09:35 PM »
Quote
Though as the DS cart cannot work on a AGS-101 screen nothing looked more spectacular seeing it run on the device even though it had no sound and as for those SNES to GBA ports that came out they were badly tinted and worst of all the ports were made so the sprites would be bigger than the map design itself is really jarring especially when you compare the Contra Alien Wars version to the GBA port and more.

This was due to the fact that earlier GBA games had exceptionally dark screens so they had to make things lighter/neon/pastel in order to make games viewable on the dark screens with no back light or only front light...

Gameboy Player specific games often got around this by including both the lighter artwork for console use, and a special pallete with the original colors for the player to display. It could detect and display the correct color.

They also had to zoom because GBA does not have the same resolution as the original SNES or a tv.  You can see this same issue between ports of Sega games and SNES games since Sega had larger resolution, and SNES didn't things are zoomed  on the SNES... Or they had to redraw all the artwork to fit into SNES limits.

Emulating SNES on GBA or DS screen involves either zooming in on a portion of the screen for 'accurate pixel to pixel graphics, or extremly squishing them to fit into the limits of the GBA or DS screens (this especially affects 'text', all those NES to GBA ports "Classic" series had to mod the text to make it viewable on the systems, and also hacked the view in the games to fit on much smaller GBA screens, even if they were still running an emulator on chip method). Squishing resolutions to fit into a smaller resolution actually makes some graphics look highly pixellated or highly blurry.

The 3DS actually has more accurate or higher than original resolution so that SNES games actually look crisp on them.

Interestingly, many DS games the 3d games have artwork at a much higher resolution than the DS can handle. With the right emulator its possible to upscale the games to run in resolution of the artwork, looking somewhere between PSX era and N64.

Quote
But the sheer size of holding it would be jarring to hold onto and play for a long period of time, I think I'd make do with SNESAdvance when I get around to making stuff work better. I always found the SP model the best easiest comfiest way to play games on, problem with the DS and 3DS is they eventually become obsolete due to how big they are and how complex is to play them continuously.
"

You must have tiny hands, PSP is very comfortable to hold onto. DS lites aren't bad either. Of course there is always the possibility of running it 'GB Macro" style as well with a modded DS or Lite.

Also I recommend playing any GBA game, or emulated single screen game on the lower screen instead of the top screen....then just push the top screen to its maximum position back, and ignore it....
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 09:44 PM by Galron »

Offline Richardragon87

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2021, 01:11 AM »
You must have tiny hands, PSP is very comfortable to hold onto. DS lites aren't bad either. Of course there is always the possibility of running it 'GB Macro" style as well with a modded DS or Lite.

Also I recommend playing any GBA game, or emulated single screen game on the lower screen instead of the top screen....then just push the top screen to its maximum position back, and ignore it....

Actually their is a way to keep the sprites the same size it just needed to have a way of making the camera follow the sprite to avoid this issue, as for making the sprites smaller I don't think I have seen that method used on the GBA version of SNES conversions normally sprites are the same size as the actual game itself with the exception of the scale method not being used can change it scale + obj squishing the screen to pixelate it as you said. Also my hands are pretty normal sized but the way the buttons are too far apart is the major issue, your likely going to get marks in the palms the way the directional pad and the normal buttons are so far apart at least with the SP they were near enough so it was easier to hold it when playing on it.

Also that push screen method I have never heard of is that only with a DS itself.
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Offline Galron

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2021, 02:42 AM »
"It doesn't make the sprites smaller" it just in that your zoomed... It's just that you are zoomed in on a portion of the screen, and it does 'follow' the character.

Emulator on DSTwo plus for example has option of zooming in on different parts of the screen or showing full screen at reduced resolution, from the native resolution...

If you display full screen everything is 'zoomed out' since the pixels don't match the native pixels of the DS, they become even more pixellated and 'squished'. IT makes text harder to read specifically,m but often smaller character sprites will lose detail... Because its not 1:1 pixel density... DS has 256 x 192 pixel resolution, while SNES has 256×224 pixel resolution, those are not compatible resolutions.  It means in order to show full screen of the game on screen, pixels have to be 'forced' (squished) into the fewer pixels, thus detail is lost... If you want exact pixel scale then it has to zoom into the portion fo the screen closest to the character, but you  lose anything anything outside of the 56x192 pixels being shown.

The emulator gives the option of entire screen, zoomed out (option 0), but forcing 256x224 pixels into 256x192 pixel space, thus losing 'detail'. Especially noticeable with onscreen text.

of course there are games that rarely used the hi-res mode of 512 x 448 on the snes... That's also not a perfect conversion to 256 x 192 pixels....

The next option which gives better visuals but cuts off the top half of the screen is "showing only bottom half" of SNES's total screen, wiht 'square pixels", or alternativley show "Top" half of a SNES screen with square pixels. Depends on the game and which might be more useful... A mario game might zoom better to lower half as mario is almost always shown on lower half... while a Shmup might work best zoomed in the top half as that's where you'll view the character most of the time.

The third is Middle of the screen, with square pixels, you lose the top and bottom half of the screen Most likely won't see the infomration and stuff at top of the screen, poitns and stuff... But you get a better view on games that 'center' the character to the middle of the screen. Shmups or aventurere games often times.

Then there is 'zoomed" out to entire screen mode similar to option 0, this option '4' then 'smooths' the screen. to blur out the squished pixels and make things look a little better. But obviously it still suffers from trying to force many pixels into less pixels space.

I don't have time right now but in a later post,  I can try to include examples of each 'mode', vs what the game would look on a tv that has enough pixels to show the game in its original resolution...  But its impossible to have TV's resolution on a DS screen, and 'see everything'.

What I mean by 'pushing' the screen back is actually opening it to its full extent,  so that its not going to flop into your view or shade your view... unless you want the shade.... Its not a 'method' its simply opening the DS to its full extent... generally speaking the DS has 2 or 3 positions which the top screen can click to for different perspectives. I just happen to find having the 'fully open' version to be least cumbersome or likely to get in the way of my view.

Mind you DS and a GBA SP's clam shells and weight are roughly the same... So unless a GBA SP makes your hands tired, neither will a DS... Besides no one gets tired playing DS games, which use both screens...
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 02:13 PM by Galron »

Offline nuu

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2021, 01:35 PM »
I see you accidentally deleted a "2". The DS of course has a native resolution of 256x192 pixels for both its LCDs. 56 pixels width would be even more narrow than the Gameboy's LCD.

The GBA LCD has a native resolution of 240x160 pixels while NES and SNES (in most modes) both uses a 256x240 pixel resolution (the SNES can have a height of either 240 or 224 in normal modes), and most other 8-bit and 16-bit systems uses something similar (Mega Drive has a 320 pixel wide mode though).

The width of 256 is hardly a problem on the GBA as you can get away with cutting 8 pixels on either side as overscan, but the height is a problem. Even if you cut off a lot of overscan at the top and bottom, 160 lines is very small, and you would probably have to squeeze the screen or modify the game to make sure all vital information is displayed.
It would be better if the GBA LCD's native resolution had at least been 240x192. 240x160 was large for a portable system of the time though. Just compare the Wonderswan and the Neo Geo Pocket.

After they made Super Mario Bros Deluxe (which zooms in on Mario like Richarddragon was talking about) I remeber that there was talk about porting Zelda 1 and 2 to the GBC, but the plan was canceled because of the small native resolution of the LCD (160x144 pixels). Zooming in probably didn't work as well for the two Zelda games as it did for SMBDX.
I think this plan eventually evolved into the Famicom mini/classic series (and the Animal Forest and e-Reader ports) on the GBA.

Porting SNES games (that doesn't use the high rez modes) to DS without squeezing the screen vertically would require cutting off part of the top and bottom, and moving things like the HUD into view if needed. The width is already perfect at 256 pixels.

By the TV's resolution you mean the video game system's output video resolution. A normal CRT TV's native vertical resolution is always 240p/288p or 480i/576i for NTSC/PAL TVs (or actually 525/625 total lines including the invisible ones), and doesn't have a native horizontal resolution due to how it draws the screen using scanlines instead of discrete pixels. But there is something called TVL used to measure a TV's horizontal fineness.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 01:39 PM by nuu »

Offline Galron

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2021, 02:19 PM »
Well also, SNES and NES also 'stretched' things natively too. Hence why modern Nintendo releases like SNES Mini and Nintendo Online classics have both square pixel mode, and a mode that better fits the original 4:3 display of the original systems as display options. Developers eitehr designed for the stretching by making artwork look normal when 'stretched' and unaturally vertically squished (they look gauntly taller) if in square pixel mode. While some designers didn't take it into account, and their character designs always looked weird on original tvs, but look better on square pixels for some reason. But that's fewer and far between.

Sega in north america had a wider resolution 320×224 (320x240 in PAL regions) without 'stretching' so actually looks more like wider screen when compared to snes in its native resolution.
Quote
the SNES can have a height of either 240 or 224 in normal modes

I think 240 was PAL regions displays, 224 was North American displays. Displaying 240 on NTSC would generally cut off those lines, unless it 'squished' vertically within the system itself (by developer's choice). This was a problem for most games of that era even into later systems  that relied on NTSC (N64, etc), even with higher resolutions, PAL always could handle more vertical dispaly than NTSC could handle. Especially a problem if you are trying to convert the games over from PAL to NTSC, as HUDs and other vital information is sometimes cut off..
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 02:30 PM by Galron »

Offline nuu

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2021, 05:47 PM »
Yes these systems doesn't use square pixels because of the 5.37MHz dot clock used by NES, SNES, PC Engine and all systems that has a video display processor based on the Texas Instrument TMS9918. This includes ColecoVision, MSX and all Sega systems up to Mega Drive. The dot clock (pixel clock) is what determines the width of the pixels because it's how fast the scanline can change colors when scanning a line I believe. The Mega Drive and SNES must speed it up when their respective higher horizontal resolution modes are used (higher vertical resolution can only be done by interlacing).


It's a persistent misconception that circulates on the internet that says that the NTSC NES can only generate 224 lines and the PAL can generate 240 lines. It's false, both can only generate 240 lines, this has been confirmed. And for the SNES both regions can do either 224 or 240 lines depending on what the game developer's needs.
I think people are mixing up the NES and SNES with the Mega Drive. The Mega Drive NTSC and PAL VDP can only generate a 224 and a 240 vertical resolution respectively.

240p is actually an NTSC resolution (480/2=240), the corresponding PAL resolution is 288p (576/2=288), but no version of the NES and SNES can output 288 lines (the SNES can output more using its interlaced mode though).
The developers usually knew that NTSC TVs seldom shows all 240 lines, so they normally don't display anything vital in the overscan area near the edges. For NES games they may even place screen artifacts that are not supposed to be seen in the overscan. This doesn't work well with PAL TVs that always displays all 240 lines due to its higher line count, so there are often garbage at the top and bottom in NES games.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 05:55 PM by nuu »

Offline Richardragon87

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2021, 08:41 PM »
I don't think the SNES emulation on GBA ever resized stuff aside from their mainline title Batman Returns which changed the hud and stuff to fit into a GBA screen. As games like the EMIT series for example really showed how well a GBA displayed real time stuff happening in a animated screen some was a bit broken and choppy but it must have been mindblowing at the time of the SP era.
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Offline nuu

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2021, 10:12 PM »
They would have to squash or cut the screen at least. If the game doesn't use the whole generated video area, cutting it off might not hurt anything.
The SNES can use "windows" to crop the screen on all sides and still have scrolling work. Shadowrun seems to do something like this.

Offline Richardragon87

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2021, 10:43 PM »
They would have to squash or cut the screen at least. If the game doesn't use the whole generated video area, cutting it off might not hurt anything.
The SNES can use "windows" to crop the screen on all sides and still have scrolling work. Shadowrun seems to do something like this.

Batman was the only game that did that stuff like the Final Fight series is frame by frame the way the SNES showed it same goes for any other game only the modified ones done by the developers would change stuff by making sprites too big and making the map become a small map grid that is impossible to make out what is going on.
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Offline Galron

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2021, 11:05 PM »
They would have to squash or cut the screen at least. If the game doesn't use the whole generated video area, cutting it off might not hurt anything.
The SNES can use "windows" to crop the screen on all sides and still have scrolling work. Shadowrun seems to do something like this.

Ya, the classic series (famicom or nes) either squish the screen but also realign the huds and all terxt overlay with font that's cleaner and easier to read on the system, or more generally they  'cut' off the top half of the screen, and move the HUDs down so that they will show up in the display, at the top of the gba'S display.

Take one example Super Mario Bros, shaves off the blue space above the HUD, but also shaves off an inch from the bottom too, that generally just one row of blocks, which doesn't affect gameplay.


LOZ seems to do a number of things. First it cuts off the bottom of ther display, again largely just a row blocks. Link will also be cut off if he walks to lower part of the room to move into another. This doesn't really affect gameplay at all. Secondly the hud seems to be modified and squished itself (this continues into the menu if you lower it, which all seems more squished), but main playfield area doesn't appear to be squished. Link's sprite seems to be consistant to how he looks on tv dispaly. The title screen, all elements seem to be more squished with some cut off from the bottom. There are some other changes like the copyright and dates.

Basically they are interesting 'romhacks' I doubt the emulator is doing much of the changes.

Now onto GBA gamers Super Mario Advance are ground up ports/remixes of the original game with additions, changes, and new content. They are more than just 'romhacks' of the original games or all stars. However they largely play mostly the same, in parciular Super Mario World and Super Mario Bros 3. The majority of these cut off parts of the screen either the top, bottom or even sides while moving the hud down to the 'new top' or in a new place altogether. Super Mario World almost completely changers terh HUD design and 'stretches' it across the screen in a different way. It's also placed at the very edge of the screen (on snes its about 1 inch down).  Take for example Yoshi's house the very first area in the game, you'll see that you can only see the green leaves of the treehouse and not the top of the tree. In the SNES version you see birds and smoke coming out of a fireplace stack at the top of the screen. There is a new command in which Mario or Luigi will look up, and you can press a button to make the game scroll up to see what's above or below you, to see those elements that are cut off...

This is what I consider 'zoom' in on an section of screen. It doesn't change the artwork but it avoids having to 'squish' anything too.... But you won't see everything you could have seen on the original version, without workarounds to move the screen around.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 11:09 PM by Galron »

Offline Galron

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Re: Transfer Pak
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2021, 11:08 PM »
They would have to squash or cut the screen at least. If the game doesn't use the whole generated video area, cutting it off might not hurt anything.
The SNES can use "windows" to crop the screen on all sides and still have scrolling work. Shadowrun seems to do something like this.

Batman was the only game that did that stuff like the Final Fight series is frame by frame the way the SNES showed it same goes for any other game only the modified ones done by the developers would change stuff by making sprites too big and making the map become a small map grid that is impossible to make out what is going on.

Nah you gotta look much closer, sometimes they cut off lines from the top of the screen or lines from the bottom of the screen or both, while changing and moving the huds around. It's impossible to have 1:1 graphics without zooming in at least one part of the screen in someway or redoing artwork or the screen to get around missing parts....

Additionally different resolutions caused other issuers in games, like Ace Attorney series going from GBA to to DS meant there was extra space around edgers of the artwork so they actually drew new background details to fill in the 'black space' and fit the new screen dimensions of the DS

It's also very easy to see the difference they did with Final Fight... It zooms heavily in on the character, and the game scrolls both up and down in relation to where he is on the screen, where as in the original there is no up and down scrolling and you simply see the entire "street" (area you can move around), and the background on the same screen. The hud has been changed and moved around to compensate, for the fact that not everything is viewable on screen at once, unlike the original.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOp4VZRc_88

Here are comparison videos for 48 of the ports (most of the time its 'zoom and crop'):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xurqNOafU6Y
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 11:29 PM by Galron »