Author Topic: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact  (Read 20546 times)

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Offline mario64

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Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« on: October 04, 2016, 12:56 AM »
Anyone know how to get this rom hack to work on the Everdrive 64? On mine it just hangs after you click to start it. Shame too. It looks incredible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG4PCVfu4qo

« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 12:59 AM by mario64 »

Offline rafaelalvesals

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2016, 02:12 AM »
if this wasn't made thinking in the original hardware, it will never work on everdrive. Some hacks are emulator based, so they have some mods that needs more than the n64 can handle.

Offline Kerr Avon

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2016, 12:15 PM »
Rafaelalvesals is right. The problem is not the Everdrive 64 (or any other flash cartridge), the problem is that the mod (the hack of Super Mario 64) won't work on a real N64. There are two reasons for this; the first is that because the editor used to create the mod was never tested on a real N64 (or rather, the mods it produces weren't), it does things that the N64 can't do (certain types of memory access and sound chip usage, I think). Secondly, some of the mods seem to demand more resources than the N64 had, so of course they won't work either.

Someone should fix the editing software so that it can only create Mario 64 hacks that run on the real N64 hardware, but for some reason this hasn't happened yet. As a result, lots of SM64 mods won't work on the real N64, though some will. The situation is similar with Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time mods. Other game mods (such as for Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, F-Zero X, etc) mostly work fine on a real N64 and flash cartridge.


Go here to download some real N64-compatible Super Mario 64 hacks:

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=1579.0
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 12:17 PM by Kerr Avon »

Offline ozidual

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2016, 04:42 PM »
Some examples of what Kerr Avon is talking about: 

I've been hacking for the N64 for about 6 months now.  For the more involved hacks on Zelda OoT/MM, I'll get the code just right so it works on an emulator.  Then I'll test it on the console and without fail, it will fail :)  It then takes some dancing around looking for the "extra" stuff such as overlays, code files that got moved or are now too large, or pointers that need to be updated to name a few.  Since I know which code I've changed and seen errors along the way, it's usually pretty easy to find the problems.  If I were looking at someone else's code it would take a LOT longer, and it would be next to impossible for hacks that change stuff throughout the entire ROM.

Most hacking is done on emulators because it takes seconds to load a file onto an emulator, but a few minutes to load to the console.  Plus, on an emulator I can easily see what the code is doing and make small to medium-sized tweaks.  Finally, flash carts are relatively new, so the majority of hackers up until recently have had no way and no reason to test their code on the original hardware. 

That's probably more than you wanted to know, but I thought I'd flesh out the old arguments with some personal experience.
Projects: Zelda OoT GCtoN64, Doshin the Giant, SSSV, Sim City 64, Getter Love, Shiren
Flash Carts: EverDrive64 2.5, EverDrive N8, SD2SNES

Offline brandonx76

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2016, 06:22 PM »
I saw one comment saying this worked on an Everdrive - so I assume it did..but then heard/saw lots of folks asking to confirm and thought that it may not -

Can anyone confirm?

Offline StarDust4Ever

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2016, 11:56 AM »
My understanding of why Super Mario hacks don't work on a real N64 is due to index values. The ROM expander for M64 places tables with lookup addresses with odd values. The N64 can only address in 16-bit increments, so an entry that indexes an odd byte will fail on real hardware. Even the expanded ROM with zero changes will fail as soon as you press start or the attract mode kicks in. So all the indexes on the ROM expander need to be adjusted accordingly. If every odd index were fixed, would this allow the ROM to play?

It is really frustrating to me to see these brilliant ROM hacks and not be able to play them. I loathe PC emulation and IMO if an N64 ROM does not play on real hardware, it is not an N64 ROM. ED64 has been out for several years now, so it is unfortunate that nobody is updating their hacking tools to produce ROMs that work on real hardware.

A game console is like a fine symphony. Playing in an emulator is like going to an orchestra hall only to realise all the instruments have been replaced with MIDI synths and broadcast through a PA system...

But this looks like the dream I've waited for 20 years, an SM64 2, and it breaks my heart that I cannot play it as the game was intended. :'(

Offline fintogive

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2016, 05:51 AM »
I saw one comment saying this worked on an Everdrive - so I assume it did..but then heard/saw lots of folks asking to confirm and thought that it may not -

Can anyone confirm?

i just tried it today with my 3.0 ED64. it doesn't work unfortunately.

Offline fintogive

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2016, 05:58 AM »
You know... after 20 year you would think they would have everything together with hacking the n64.  ive hacked the DS console and every rom hack ive used or made for the ds works on hardware without issues.

I agree with StarDust4Ever  if it doesnt run on hardware, its not a true n64 game. and n64 emulation still kinda sucks.  maybe one day some one will fully reverse engineer the n64 and release the source code and get the emulator scene straight with the hardware.

Offline Kerr Avon

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2016, 11:48 PM »
I joined a Super Mario 64 hacking forum today, and asked why this problem existed (my post is at: https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=86336&)and why it hasn't been solved after all this time. The bloke (I assume, as his/her username doesn't seem to appear!) says "The current maintainer of the major hacking tools doesn't have much interested in console compatibility and keeps the source closed", which isn't hopeful.


He also posted a link:

https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=78265


which contains some interesting information (most of it over my head), but the reserch/work seems to be progressing slowly, so we'll have to see if anything really becomes of it.

Offline ozidual

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2016, 04:29 AM »
Just based on the original post, it seems like everything can be fixed right up to the point that they import levels they've created.  If they import levels before the 4-5 sections before that are corrected, all of the offsets are wrong.  This is a huge problem to fix.

Completely different offsets is what is standing in the way of fixing the ending for PAL Ocaring of Time Gamecube/Master Quest.  It requires days/weeks/months of tracing things around to redo each line of code.  It would be easier to re-create the code than it would be to fix it, and that is no small feat either.

That said, skimming some of the posts further down, it looks like they might be on track with some good ideas.  At least they are working on it, even if they may not be working on this specific hack yet.
Projects: Zelda OoT GCtoN64, Doshin the Giant, SSSV, Sim City 64, Getter Love, Shiren
Flash Carts: EverDrive64 2.5, EverDrive N8, SD2SNES

Offline Kerr Avon

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2016, 06:19 PM »
MacN64 has done some great work on this subject:


How to Play Super Mario 64 Hacks on the ED64!
http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=1576.0

The SM64 Console Compatibility thread:
http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=78265

MacN64's Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/macN64/videos


Everyone, can we list the SM64 hacks that work with the N64 + Everdrive 64, please? And add a brief description about what's new or changed from the original game, and if you think it's worth anyone's time trying the hack. I can't post any, as it's been so long since I tried and I can't remember what did work, but if you know of any, then please post here.

Offline aterraformer

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2016, 10:40 PM »
I need a safe space on this topic  ;D

Offline ozidual

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2016, 10:57 PM »
I skimmed the krikzz forum link above and it looks like people are running into the same problems that GBM was having with the Ocarina of Time hacks that were supposed to work on hardware.  They may seem to work for a time, but then something crashes the game.  Something like opening a door or leaving/entering a room.  Sometimes you can work around these crashes, sometimes not.

Your best bet on finding hacks that work is to find YT videos of these hacks played on hardware.  Skim the videos to make sure they finished the game.  Then contact the person to see if they can upload their version of the hack. It looked like some of the people on that thread were making videos of their progress in some of the hacks.
Projects: Zelda OoT GCtoN64, Doshin the Giant, SSSV, Sim City 64, Getter Love, Shiren
Flash Carts: EverDrive64 2.5, EverDrive N8, SD2SNES

Offline StarDust4Ever

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Re: Super Mario 64 - Last Impact
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2016, 09:02 AM »
I joined a Super Mario 64 hacking forum today, and asked why this problem existed (my post is at: https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=86336&)and why it hasn't been solved after all this time. The bloke (I assume, as his/her username doesn't seem to appear!) says "The current maintainer of the major hacking tools doesn't have much interested in console compatibility and keeps the source closed", which isn't hopeful.


He also posted a link:

https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=78265


which contains some interesting information (most of it over my head), but the reserch/work seems to be progressing slowly, so we'll have to see if anything really becomes of it.
They really dogpiled you in that thread man!

Sorry for my late reply, but subs to threads do not show in my inbox for whatever reason.

I'm trying to read through The SM64 Console Compatibility thread but some of the jargon used is hard for me to understand, and I have a pretty good grasp on hex editing.

I am hoping someday these issues get fixed, because brilliant hacks will be created and in the future accurate emulators will break compatibility with older hacks and nothing will work. N64 emulation has existed for nearly as long as NES/SNES emulation, yet it is little more mature than it was ten years ago.

I've not only enjoyed playing hacks on real hardware, but enjoyed the rich homebrew scene that exists on NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari, none of which would be possible without highly accurate emulators.

To me, getting on the PC is work. It's uncomfortable for me to sit in front of a PC to play emulator games when I've got the consoles in the other room where I can get all cozy and chill. Not to mention the miriad of other issues emulation presents.

I hope this does get fixed, but I am in agreement with you, the majority of people in the hacking community just aren't interested in supporting real hardware, including the author of Toad's Tool, and it's a travesty really...  :'(