Author Topic: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package  (Read 85696 times)

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Offline Necronomfive

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #90 on: June 25, 2017, 01:50 PM »
New release!

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=37264226683392618860

- Finally fixed EG trigger bug. There should be no more skipped notes anymore!

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving us full VRC7 support.

No need to thank me.

I'm doing this self-motivated for primarily satisfying my own hobby and interests.

Which (as you all have found out by now), also means that such activity is subject to my own priotitization of my free time. ;)

If somebody else finds it useful, then great, nice to hear that you like it.  :)

Offline leonquest

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #91 on: June 25, 2017, 04:12 PM »
No, on the official OS v.15, the MAPROUT.BIN byte at $55 is $16.  In other words, $16 tells the EverDrive to use 022.RBF.  $55 tells the EverDrive to use the 085.RBF that Necronomfive added with his VRC7 mapper.

Hi!

I tried this last night and nothing. Krikkz's mapper has no issues though.

In any case if it works on a real nes, it should work on the AVS, so I'll wait for retroUSB to fix it some day.

Thanks for your help!
Everdrive64 V3 - SD2Snes rev. H - Everdrive N8 fami - MegaEd X3 - PS IO - MODE - MISTer - AVS

Offline leonquest

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #92 on: June 25, 2017, 04:13 PM »
New release!

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=37264226683392618860

- Finally fixed EG trigger bug. There should be no more skipped notes anymore!

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving us full VRC7 support.

No need to thank me.

I'm doing this self-motivated for primarily satisfying my own hobby and interests.

Which (as you all have found out by now), also means that such activity is subject to my own priotitization of my free time. ;)

If somebody else finds it useful, then great, nice to hear that you like it.  :)

you are awesome dude, it was well worth the wait.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 04:28 PM by leonquest »
Everdrive64 V3 - SD2Snes rev. H - Everdrive N8 fami - MegaEd X3 - PS IO - MODE - MISTer - AVS

Offline SmokeMonster

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2017, 10:26 PM »
Incredible work, Necronomfive. This is a major accomplishment and I'm very impressed. Thanks for using this project on :D

Offline Necronomfive

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #94 on: June 26, 2017, 10:34 PM »
New release!

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=31621224785103436729

This time:

- Increased volume again.

In my opinion, the balance between FM & internal APU sound channels should be okay now (at least on the AV Famicom).

Since I have now started to increase the volume by limiting the digital range, on the one hand, the FM sound is now louder, but on the other hand, if more than 4 voices are now played at full envelope volume, the output mixing stage now starts to clip the signal, thus losing dynamic range.

I am not so happy with this solution, but this is the only way to deal with it without redesigning the Everdrive N8 with a proper audio amplifier circuit (hint at krikzz  ;) ).

Most people will still be happy with this anyway.

Offline Sarge

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #95 on: June 27, 2017, 04:04 AM »
Awesome work!  Thanks much!
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Offline Great Hierophant

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #96 on: June 27, 2017, 07:27 AM »
New release!

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=31621224785103436729

This time:

- Increased volume again.

In my opinion, the balance between FM & internal APU sound channels should be okay now (at least on the AV Famicom).

Since I have now started to increase the volume by limiting the digital range, on the one hand, the FM sound is now louder, but on the other hand, if more than 4 voices are now played at full envelope volume, the output mixing stage now starts to clip the signal, thus losing dynamic range.

I am not so happy with this solution, but this is the only way to deal with it without redesigning the Everdrive N8 with a proper audio amplifier circuit (hint at krikzz  ;) ).

Most people will still be happy with this anyway.

A fair assessment.  I cranked up the volume a bit louder than for other games and it sounded much better than before. 

Now can you do anything about the encounter rate?  ;D
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Offline Asbrandt

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #97 on: June 27, 2017, 09:12 AM »
I have my expansion audio mixer switch configured so that the "Everdrive" setting is volume tuned for what I believe to be the latest version of your own Sunsoft 5B mapper (September 6th 2015) which also matches the VRC6 replacement mapper, a version set to 75% volume.

And I'm pleased to report that the volume of your latest version is spot-on with this configuration when compared against the real Lagrange Point cartridge on my appropriate mixer setting for real cartridges.

The real cartridge has a noticable low-pass-filter, but that isn't something that could be accommodated via the FPGA, it would have to be done in a modification to the mixer.

EDIT: The potential for clipping is unfortunate, if you wanted to re-tune the volume of both this and the 5B for a lower volume I'm sure there would be a version of the VRC6 that matches and a change to the mixer configuration. (I use Viletim's recommended configuration with the NESRGB)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 09:24 AM by Asbrandt »

Offline polyh3dron

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #98 on: June 27, 2017, 10:58 AM »
I just ran the new mapper on my NESRGB-modded AV Famicom.. The 2A03 channels still sound a bit on the hot side, but it's close enough for my liking. I also have an Akumajou Densetsu cart that sounds perfect and damn close to the aforementioned 75% VRC6 mapper, so I know the expansion audio is running properly on my console, but I do not have a Lagrange Point cart to run for comparison. Still, it's close enough to how Nestopia sounds that I'm happy with it. Thanks again!

BTW: I couldn't care less about the clipping potential, I'll risk that in order to get a better mix.

PS: I just did some tests... Did some A/B comparisons on my AV Famicom and Nestopia through the latest Retroarch:

• VRC6 75_70 mapper on the EDN8 and the Akumajou Densetsu cart, and Nestopia damn near identical.
• Latest Sunsoft 5B mapper with Gimmick! on the EDN8 compared with Nestopia, more or less identical.
• Latest VRC7 mapper compared between EDN8 and Nestopia, 2A03 channels sound significantly hotter on the AV Famicom with the EDN8 than in Nestopia. Can really tell with the PCM kick & snare drums, they pop out a hell of a lot more on the AV Famicom than in Nestopia.

I'm being incredibly nitpicky here, but those are my findings.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 11:45 AM by polyh3dron »

Offline Asbrandt

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #99 on: June 27, 2017, 07:27 PM »
I'm not keen on using an emulator as a reference point, I generally use Rainwarriors classic-Famicom (AV Mod is well after the mixer components) recordings found HERE which I use as a reference for my "real cartridge" mixer setting.

That said you aren't wrong that the 2A03 drums stick out more; I did my tests by recording a section then A/Bing in Audacity, I can pretty confidently say that the 'overall' volume level feels correct, but the lack of filtering on the FM Synth means that the tones that line up to the drums aren't quite as loud as they are on the real cartridge, so the drums stick out more.

Adding the filter would indeed require a further volume boost to maintain the 'overall' volume level match unless you used an 'active' filter with properly dialed in gain.

Offline polyh3dron

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #100 on: June 27, 2017, 09:29 PM »
I'm not keen on it either, which is why I have the Akumajou Densetsu cart in my AV Fami as a control in my tests. Like i pointed out, the VRC6 mapper is basically identical between the EDN8, Nestopia, and the cart for me.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 09:33 PM by polyh3dron »

Offline polyh3dron

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2017, 08:55 AM »
After some further testing of this mapper, I think I may have figured out why the drums are sticking out so much. Whatever channel in the VRC7 that's used for bass in a lot of the music cues in Lagrange Point is exceptionally low. Like REALLY low. It's tougher to notice with a small speaker on a PVM, but once I hooked my console up to my big system I spotted it right away. The music cue where it stands out the most for me is this one:

https://youtu.be/drwX7MbB_IE?t=13m35s

(skip to 13:35 if it doesn't do it automatically)

The bass on here is very easy to hear. It's nice and full and you can almost feel it. It's almost nonexistent with this mapper.

If it's any help, I do believe there are two synth channels being used to create the bass tone in this and a few other cues; one for the high end of it and another for the low end.

I believe that if this is remedied, the drums won't be sticking out as much as a result.

Offline Necronomfive

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2017, 01:45 PM »
https://youtu.be/drwX7MbB_IE?t=13m35s

(skip to 13:35 if it doesn't do it automatically)

The bass on here is very easy to hear. It's nice and full and you can almost feel it. It's almost nonexistent with this mapper.

Careful. This youtube user has lots of videogame soundtracks which have been processed quite heavily (even adding a chorus/hall effect in many of his earlier videos). I don't even have to put on my headphones on to notice right away that he applied quite some heavy EQ and compression on this soundtrack aswell.

Raw, clean recordings from real hardware should always be the reference.

That being said, the internal digital processing of my core is build to exactly match the digital precision (or let's say: lack of precision ;) ) of the VRC7 / YM2413.

Where my mapper starts to differ is the digital mixing and the analogue output stage.

I perform digital mixing, and output the final waveform using a 11-bit Sigma-Delta DAC running at 50MHz.

The original chip has a 9-bit discrete DAC, and each channel is output sequentially by using time division multiplexing. So there is already lots of room for various kinds of signal distortions.

Add to that the differences in filtering circuits between both cartridges.

So it is no surprise that my mapper might sound more crispy, cleaner, colder, and less bassy on the Everdrive N8 than the original cartridge.

It's the same discussion being held in different areas (popular topic in synthesizer gear discussions: my Yamaha DX-7 MK-I sounds way more bassy and warm compared to the "ice cold" Yamaha DX7-MK II).

I personally have no plans to add digital post processing in the FPGA to emulate the "grittiness" of the original audio output.

This is clearly out of scope for this kind of project.

But thank you very much for your positive feedback so far!  :)

« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 02:01 PM by Necronomfive »

Offline polyh3dron

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2017, 04:37 PM »
I'm not using just the youtube video as a reference, that's merely the only one I could link to you. And this specific cue (and entire soundtrack) doesn't have anywhere near the same amount of post processing as the other videos on that account (almost none). I have no recording of the original cart to share with you but the difference in the overall level (not crispiness, cleanliness, or some other intangible subtlety) of the channel being used for bass tones is so egregious that it has to be a legit mixing issue. I work as a sound engineer in post-production for feature films myself, so I'd like to think my professional background would give my findings just a little bit of legitimacy. If you have a Lagrange Point cart available to you, try the comparison yourself.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 04:42 PM by polyh3dron »

Offline polyh3dron

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Re: Konami VRC7 Mapper Support Package
« Reply #104 on: July 01, 2017, 05:33 AM »
After scouring the interwebs, I found some authentic, unprocessed recordings of Lagrange Point audio from an AV Famicom provided by rainwarrior at NESDEV:

http://rainwarrior.ca/projects/nes/lagrange_point_ref.zip

As some of you may know, you can do a sound test of the game by holding A+B on controller 2 while resetting the game.

Even with the latest version, as I said before, the bass channel is significantly lower in volume than it should be in this mapper. The perfect scenario would be to raise the bass channel and lower the PCM drums, although I'm sure it's not that easy, since Necronomfive did mention getting clipping with the mix as it currently is.

Here's the NESDEV thread from where those recordings I posted originate:

http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8639
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 07:20 AM by polyh3dron »