Author Topic: Special Chip Implementation  (Read 46060 times)

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aloram

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2016, 06:38 PM »
I've been meaning to ask this for a while: Why can't the SA-1 and/or SuperFX chips be harvested from games and "connected" to the SD2SNES? Is there not enough room on the board? I know nothing about programming, so I'm just curious why this isn't possible. Thanks.

Offline leonquest

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2016, 09:49 PM »
No, verilog is very different from the C++ that bsnes is written in. bsnes' source code is not much more useful than a plaintext hardware doc for the purpose of implementing in FPGA, and potentially less-so. Plus, bsnes' SuperFX implementation isn't 100% hardware accurate.

The MSU1 support wasn't ported from bsnes, it was more like byuu said "here is how it works" and then ikari wrote a hardware implementation of it.

1. Verilog might be different from C++, but that doesn't mean code can't be translated. As difficult as it may be, it would save a lot of time to programmers out there.

2. "bsnes' SuperFX implementation isn't 100% hardware accurate." Well, no, but its pretty damn close, and its the best out there.

3. "The MSU1 support wasn't ported from bsnes, it was more like byuu said "here is how it works" and then ikari wrote a hardware implementation of it." Yeah, exactly the same thing could be done with the SA-1 and SFX chips.

Byuu> Hey Ikari, look, this is how you implement SFX and SA-1

Ikari and/or Random coder> Thanks dude, I'll get it done!
Everdrive64 V3 - SD2Snes rev. f - Everdrive N8 fami - MegaEd X3 - PS IO - MODE - MISTer

Offline hking0036

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2016, 11:38 PM »
I've been meaning to ask this for a while: Why can't the SA-1 and/or SuperFX chips be harvested from games and "connected" to the SD2SNES? Is there not enough room on the board? I know nothing about programming, so I'm just curious why this isn't possible. Thanks.
There wouldn't be space; plus if you wanted to add it you'd have to have another board revision to have a place for the SA-1/SuperFX. They are far from negligible in size. Most importantly, though, I don't think that the cart can draw enough power to power the FPGA, a SuperFX, AND an SA-1. Additionally you'd have to have some software implemented to access it when necessary. So it's not necessarily as simple as it would seem. There could be some other kind of problem with it as well, or else the Super Everdrive may have an ability for that, seeing as you can tack a DSP1/1b/2/3/4 module onto it but nothing else.

Offline nuu

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2016, 12:27 PM »
No, verilog is very different from the C++ that bsnes is written in. bsnes' source code is not much more useful than a plaintext hardware doc for the purpose of implementing in FPGA, and potentially less-so. Plus, bsnes' SuperFX implementation isn't 100% hardware accurate.

The MSU1 support wasn't ported from bsnes, it was more like byuu said "here is how it works" and then ikari wrote a hardware implementation of it.

1. Verilog might be different from C++, but that doesn't mean code can't be translated. As difficult as it may be, it would save a lot of time to programmers out there.

2. "bsnes' SuperFX implementation isn't 100% hardware accurate." Well, no, but its pretty damn close, and its the best out there.

3. "The MSU1 support wasn't ported from bsnes, it was more like byuu said "here is how it works" and then ikari wrote a hardware implementation of it." Yeah, exactly the same thing could be done with the SA-1 and SFX chips.
Verilog is a hardware descriptive language used for programmable logic. It's not really "programming" as you do with a processor. It's not so much translating the code as about understanding how the architecture works, and sit down and implement it in the FPGA. The problem isn't that the SFX and SA-1 isn't understood, it's that no one has taken the necessary time to do the job in the FPGA.

Ikari tried with the Super FX already but he had trouble understanding certain things, and then other things got in the way.

Offline rafaelalvesals

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2016, 03:07 AM »
I will ask something here that i have no idea if it possible or not. There's a way to dump this chips, like it was made with cics chips for ed64? Removing them from the game board or dump directly of the gameboard, idk?

Offline nuu

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2016, 11:55 AM »
I don't think these chips has any rom to dump, they are just hardware. I heard they all got decapped though and they are now fully understood how they work, which is why bsnes could emulate them so accurately. Just what I heard though.

The DSP chips, and SPC700 have bootroms though, and have all been dumped.

Offline Greg2600

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2016, 04:13 AM »
What is the point of constructing some kind of Frankenstein board for the special chips?  The cost would exceed most of the games you'd be running on it. 

Offline nuu

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2016, 09:26 AM »
Not really, some SA-1 games are not cheap and there's a lot of them. Super FX games are mostly cheap but there are a number of them too. Megaman X3 is also expensive so you save lots of money in buying an SD2SNES instead of all those games even without SA-1 and Super FX support.

Offline mrpopsicleman

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2016, 10:04 AM »
For Super FX games, I just picked up SNES Unlimited's new multicart that has all 10 Super FX games for $155 USD. I think I bought the first one they've sold. It just arrived today in the mail and it's great. It has a game selection menu and all games (where applicable) have their own save files. A video of the prototype cart can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-FVYQmo2JU

Also picked up their Kirby Superstar/Dreamland 3 2-in-1 cart for $75 USD. A link to their Etsy store is here:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/SnesUnlimited?ref=l2-shopheader-name

I already had Super Mario RPG, Street Fighter Alpha 2, Power Rangers Zeo, and the 2 PGA Golf games. As far as North American games go, I'm set. It would be nice if the SD2SNES someday does support more enhancement chips, but to me it's no big loss if it doesn't. It already more than justifies itself with everything it can already do.

aloram

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2016, 05:23 PM »
I wonder if they'll sell an SA-1 multicart.

Offline romhunter

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2016, 08:13 PM »
Cool! Where to buy FX all in 1 cart? Thanks

Offline hking0036

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2016, 10:12 PM »
Cool! Where to buy FX all in 1 cart? Thanks
There's a link to their etsy in the video. https://www.etsy.com/shop/SnesUnlimited
I won't say anything about selling repros of actual NA games but if you want those multicarts then I guess it's okay.

Honestly, though, unless you're dying to play Starfox 2/Starfox Weekend there's not a whole ton of reason to get it, you can get doom for about $25(?), Starfox I know I got for $10, and then Yoshi's Island is maybe 30-40. Still cheaper than that cart. Plus, I don't know why you'd want to play SNES doom anyways unless you're collecting carts, when any modern toaster pc can run it better than an SNES ever could, and with saves.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 10:14 PM by hking0036 »

aloram

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2016, 11:08 PM »
Cool! Where to buy FX all in 1 cart? Thanks
There's a link to their etsy in the video. https://www.etsy.com/shop/SnesUnlimited
I won't say anything about selling repros of actual NA games but if you want those multicarts then I guess it's okay.

Honestly, though, unless you're dying to play Starfox 2/Starfox Weekend there's not a whole ton of reason to get it, you can get doom for about $25(?), Starfox I know I got for $10, and then Yoshi's Island is maybe 30-40. Still cheaper than that cart. Plus, I don't know why you'd want to play SNES doom anyways unless you're collecting carts, when any modern toaster pc can run it better than an SNES ever could, and with saves.
Agreed. It's way cheaper to buy the FX games separately.

Offline mrpopsicleman

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2016, 07:31 AM »
True, it is way cheaper to buy them all separately. Heck, SNES Unlimited even sells a multicart for just the Star Fox games for $75. Still, I had the extra money for it and I think it's a cool idea and a great companion to the SD2SNES, so I'm happy with it.  :)

Offline Erockbrox

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Re: Special Chip Implementation
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2016, 06:07 PM »
I talked to Victor Vilela at super mario world central about the SA-1 chip implementation. If you don't know Victor has done pioneering work regarding the SA-1 chip.  He has coded a custom patch which allows smw rom hacks to use the SA-1 chip and also coded demos on how the SA-1 can be used to process 3D graphics which can be seen here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDmn2XLF14

He also coded wave sound effects that you can add to smw hacks too using SA-1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBqeOhxH3tI

I asked him to see what he said about making the SA-1 work with SD2SNES and here is what he said.

Quote
Hi. I have tried convincing some people to try getting SA-1 support into the sd2snes support, but no luck yet.

Unfortunately I don't have the time, effort or investment to try adding SA-1 support myself. I'm currently studying on university which is taking most of my free time now and I don't know how to program to sd2snes. It uses a very complicate programming language called verilog. Plus, I don't have the money for buying something that costs over R$ 1,000 on Brazil, which is almost higher as the salaries my mom and dad gets monthly. So yeah.

The only way to get SA-1 support into the sd2snes is making more well-done & known SA-1 hacks so naturally the sd2snes will get a demand from the players for SA-1 support.

So I guess if we want SA-1 support smw hackers will just have to make more SA-1 smw hacks or if someone can send Victor an SD2SNES board maybe that would help him.


For the Super FX chip there is a user at smw central named DiscoTheBat and they are very knowledgeable with this chip. This is what they said:

Quote
As for the SD2SNES, not yet, a friend of mine already told me to check it out but I haven't found time for that but I might give a look into it. If possible even, try to implement the unused 8MB map that Nintendo didn't used on their carts.