Author Topic: SD2SNES Pro  (Read 51717 times)

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Offline Greg2600

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2019, 08:39 PM »
For those who might be angry, again, the hardware, particularly the FGPA, are now nearly 8 years old.  That is a long time, and it's out of Krikzz's hands if those chips are being phased out because of the rest of the world/industry doesn't use them.  If you're an SNES/SFC diehard and you play the system a lot, an upgrade I feel is to be worth your while.  Full save state and SFX overclock mode are good additions, as might Super Gameboy (if possible).  I myself will consider it sometime down the line, maybe Black Friday.  I also wonder if SAG will do some kind of "upgrade" deal if you purchased one from them in the past. 

Offline the_randomizer

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2019, 09:32 PM »
For those who might be angry, again, the hardware, particularly the FGPA, are now nearly 8 years old.  That is a long time, and it's out of Krikzz's hands if those chips are being phased out because of the rest of the world/industry doesn't use them.  If you're an SNES/SFC diehard and you play the system a lot, an upgrade I feel is to be worth your while.  Full save state and SFX overclock mode are good additions, as might Super Gameboy (if possible).  I myself will consider it sometime down the line, maybe Black Friday.  I also wonder if SAG will do some kind of "upgrade" deal if you purchased one from them in the past.

What about cost though? Has that been established?

Isn't it true that GB SGB games don't run at the correct clock speed on the Snes and therefore run a bit faster/sound off? Surely, maybe SGB could be forced to run the correct clock speed on this new flashcart?

SGB2 fixed that.
And, if anyone would code an FPGA to be a SGB, they would probably make a SGB2.

I certainly hope SGB2 is implemented and not the inferior (and incorrectly timed) SGB.

Offline FeverDrive

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2019, 09:34 PM »
What about cost though? Has that been established?
The cost is the same to the consumer.

I think this PRO version is better from the manufacturer's perspective (which is good). But to us consumers it will not offer any benefits in the short term.
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Offline James-F

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2019, 09:34 PM »
The only reason for me to buy the sd2snes pro is if RedGuy makes SA-1 and SuperFX more accurate with the extra juice the Cyclone IV has.
The current sd2snes still has plenty of room for an excellent Cheat System and all kinds of menu changes like Custom Skins and background music.
Plus, SDD1 is coming soon to the sd2snes, and SPC7110 is almost identical to the SDD1 in terms of complexity so it can be done on the 'old' sd2snes.

One of the big reason krikzz asked ikari for a revision update is to prevent clones, since the 'pro' has a new anti-piracy measures that are much harder to clone or to use official firmware on a clone.
This can already be seen on current sd2snes with the “flash check error (clone?)” message.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 09:37 PM by James-F »
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Offline the_randomizer

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2019, 06:58 AM »
What about cost though? Has that been established?
The cost is the same to the consumer.

I think this PRO version is better from the manufacturer's perspective (which is good). But to us consumers it will not offer any benefits in the short term.

So $180 or so USD?

Offline James-F

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2019, 08:17 AM »
To manufacture one SD2SNES costs around 70$ according to DevLaTron which made one himself, and less for larger production batches.
The statement that producing the 'old' sd2snes is getting expensive is a huge overstatement, since it is selling for 197$,, almost 3 times the production cost.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 08:23 AM by James-F »
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Offline Relikk

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2019, 12:17 PM »
Some more details from ikari via a small interview with SmokeMonster...

https://www.retrorgb.com/sd2snes-pro-more-details-from-ikari.html

Quote
SmokeMonster: I forgot to ask how the Pro’s new save states work?
Ikari: To explain save states I should point out the limitations of real hardware: The problem with sound on save states is that the APU (S-SMP + S-DSP) is an independent system on the SNES that only has 4 I/O ports to communicate with the SNES CPU via a software protocol. Once a game has its sound code up and running in the APU there is no way to interface it in a universal way, i.e. you can’t get the state of the APU at runtime at all. I hope to overcome this limitation by running my own APU implementation on the FPGA which makes me the “owner” of its state too, so I can grab it whenever I want. The original APU would be silenced by running a little hook on reset that uploads an infinite loop so it doesn’t react to any CPU access. The sd2snes would then override the bus with its own APU responses accordingly. Unfortunately this method won’t work on a Super Nt because bus override hacks simply don’t work on it. There’s another way but it may be prone to desynchronization.

SmokeMonster: Thank you–it’s much more complex than most people would think, and that explains why you need so much more power to pull them off.

SmokeMonster: Will the original SD2SNES still get updates well into the future, when things like S-DD1 come out?
Ikari: Yes, the current sd2snes hardware will get all updates that it can handle. It’s going to hit a wall at some point but S-DD1 is definitely going to fit. Well, in fact it does already fit. Same goes for a tentative SPC7110 implementation. Tentative is probably the wrong word.

SmokeMonster: Also, does the new Pro PCB fit the old SD2SNES cartridge cases, for those who bought the special LED Pipe versions in particular?
Ikari: I took some care to put the LEDs exactly in the same locations as before, so the light guides should pick up the light. However they are now SMD LEDs so I can’t say for sure how much cross-talk they might get.

SmokeMonster: Cool, so could you probably swap the Pro PCB into older SD2SNES cart shells, and you might just have slightly bigger cutouts due to the switch to MicroSD?
Ikari: That’s what I’d expect. With Rev.J I got some feedback from SAG via krikzz and changed the shape of the PCB to their specification. Mk.III (“Pro”) inherits the change. The PCB tweet picture from krikzz still shows the older shape though. Might be from an early run. The final boards are going to be matte black I think, and will be assembled in Ukraine.

Offline the_randomizer

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2019, 06:24 PM »
To manufacture one SD2SNES costs around 70$ according to DevLaTron which made one himself, and less for larger production batches.
The statement that producing the 'old' sd2snes is getting expensive is a huge overstatement, since it is selling for 197$,, almost 3 times the production cost.
Well that doesn't bode well for the final cost of the new SD2SNES, damn.

Offline OneBagTravel

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2019, 06:34 PM »
Just a left field question, does anyone or will anyone sell kits to assemble your own SD2SNES/Pro? I have the tools to surface mount all the components and would think it would be a fun project.
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Offline gigacaesar

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2019, 08:38 PM »
I'm glad my BF order didn't go through after all. I'm looking forward to having an updated model at the same price point. Considering how long the last one was supported, I'm sure the added tech will prove useful before too long.

Offline FeverDrive

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2019, 09:48 PM »
So $180 or so USD?

$197

To manufacture one SD2SNES costs around 70$ according to DevLaTron which made one himself, and less for larger production batches.
The statement that producing the 'old' sd2snes is getting expensive is a huge overstatement, since it is selling for 197$,, almost 3 times the production cost.

Well, there are many hidden additional costs associated with running a business that aren't considered in that estimation.
  • Assembly labour (since I guess DevLaTron will solder the chips himself)
  • Shipping from the factory to Krikzz
  • Plastic shells
  • Injection mould for the plastic shell
  • Labels
  • Shipping to consumers worldwide (Since Krikzz charges $5 or free shipping) I'm sure the real cost isn't $5
  • Packing materials
  • Taxes

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Offline Spriten

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2019, 11:27 PM »
So $180 or so USD?

$197

To manufacture one SD2SNES costs around 70$ according to DevLaTron which made one himself, and less for larger production batches.
The statement that producing the 'old' sd2snes is getting expensive is a huge overstatement, since it is selling for 197$,, almost 3 times the production cost.

Well, there are many hidden additional costs associated with running a business that aren't considered in that estimation.
  • Assembly labour (since I guess DevLaTron will solder the chips himself)
  • Shipping from the factory to Krikzz
  • Plastic shells
  • Injection mould for the plastic shell
  • Labels
  • Shipping to consumers worldwide (Since Krikzz charges $5 or free shipping) I'm sure the real cost isn't $5
  • Packing materials
  • Taxes

Yep, and even if it really sold for 3 times the total cost, I say good for them! It's a good product and since I wouldn't be able to make one myself nor would I care enough to invest a large amount of time just to save ~130$ anyway, I'm perfectly fine with the current cost of the sd2snes and even thought I've bought mine less than a year ago, I've been looking at the EverDrive store every day since the news came out to try and get my hands on the pro as I can't wait to see what they'll do with the new hardware.

Offline Sarge

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2019, 12:47 AM »
That's also not counting the firmware development.

To put it in perspective, the new iPhone XS was parted out as $443, and sells for $1249.  And Apple is getting a lot more economy of scale on their devices, so they're probably making significantly more percentage-wise.  I don't think the SD2SNES pricing is unreasonable at all in that light.
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Offline animeloverxX93

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2019, 01:01 AM »
Don't forget that the SD2SNES Pro might also allow more flexibility with in-game hooks.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 02:19 AM by animeloverxX93 »

Offline protheanbeacon

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Re: SD2SNES Pro
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2019, 01:04 AM »
Quote from: the_randomizer
Well that doesn't bode well for the final cost of the new SD2SNES, damn.

Nothing to worry about as I believe krikzz, ikari or smokemonster (if not all three) have repeatedly stated the pro is going to cost the same as the regular SD2SNES did when the regular was the main product.

So that likely translates to cheapest buying it from the krikzz shop and slightly overpriced when buying it from Stoneagegamer (well unless you consider their customization options worth the extra money that is).  :P
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